Nothing Posted June 13, 2008 Report Posted June 13, 2008 Just curious of others thoughts about Birch. I know it's used on acoustics. But what about using it on solid or semi-hollow bodies? Quote
Prostheta Posted June 13, 2008 Report Posted June 13, 2008 It's fine. Birch is a hardwood and is used a lot for cabs and drums. I'm sure good pieces will be stable and strong enough to use in necks and bodies, although I don't have any stats on me to support this and i've never had chance to use any myself. I believe Fryovanni would be a good source of information on this. A few luthiers in Finland and Sweden have used it for tops....I think it has been used for necks although I can't remember any specific builds..... Anyone? Quote
Batfink Posted June 13, 2008 Report Posted June 13, 2008 Not quite sure i'd use it for necks - tends to be a bit springy and bendy. Quote
Nicko_Lps Posted June 13, 2008 Report Posted June 13, 2008 I dont know about the tonal difference,but as a wood its structure looks a lot like maple and cerry.I dont think that there would be a great differane between these 3. Quote
Nothing Posted June 13, 2008 Author Report Posted June 13, 2008 Good to know. It's not a "top choice" wood it seems. But your replies are encouraging. I came across some free Walnut-enough for a body-and thought I'd cap it with Birch (Semi-hollow because Walnut is heavy.) Only because I'm on a budget and it's cheap, readily available. I think it's a decent looking wood though. I have found that it can be a pain to stain evenly. But I may just tru-oil the entire guitar. Any experience with tru-oil and Birch? I know Walnut will be fine. Quote
Prostheta Posted June 13, 2008 Report Posted June 13, 2008 Should be okay with birch. It’s not oily like say, rosewood so Tru-oil should take to it fine. As for it being springy….you’re probably correct, so it may not be the best of choices for necks. Quote
doug Posted June 13, 2008 Report Posted June 13, 2008 Use a detail gun with and spray a dye solution. This will remove the uneven 'stain' problem altogether. Experiment with alcohol or water as the medium to see which reacts better with the birch. After adding the dye be careful not to handle the surface and avoid any wiping motion. If you feel compelled to 'wipe' or physically handle the surface, wipe it with a dry cloth to remove the surface residue. From there do not set it on a surface that would get it dirty. In the even that the body becomes contaminated you may be forced to wipe it down with your medium (alcohol or water) and let it dry. Unfortunately if you do this you will most likely introduce the unevenness you're trying to avoid. Dying is a whole process in itself, so this was only a brief overview... experimenting is VERY VERY important. The results are worth it. Birch is stronger and harder than mahogany or walnut. From that respect it's good enough for a neck. Like someone else mentioned it is sort of 'bendy' more so than maple. In a stress test maple might break before birch, yet birch is harder to sand or shape. Interesting stuff. I've used it for cabinetry and some furniture over the years and it's a 'relief' to go back to working maple... As hard as maple seems to be, it doesn't dull tools as much. Quote
guitar101 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Posted June 13, 2008 Just curious of others thoughts about Birch. I know it's used on acoustics. But what about using it on solid or semi-hollow bodies? Check this out http://www.ruokangas.com/ Click on the Mojo Supreme Quote
Nothing Posted June 14, 2008 Author Report Posted June 14, 2008 More posts and a lot more detail than I had expected. Thank you all so much. I will be doing a Birch top on a Walnut semi-hollow. Walnut neck. Rosewood FB. May not look as good as the Arctic Birch on the Ruokangus but I like it. That's the point right? Not sure if I'll dye and oil or just oil. Still a ways off. Thanks. Quote
orgmorg Posted June 14, 2008 Report Posted June 14, 2008 I don't know where people are getting the idea that birch is "springy and bendy" It is a very strong wood, with a higher Modulus of elasticity than hard maple. Quote
joshvegas Posted June 14, 2008 Report Posted June 14, 2008 (edited) Springy and Bendy refer to its reactions under forces A high Modulus of elasticity means it can be deformed and returned to shape (much like a spring ) It could very well be strong aswell! (but what sort of strength? Tensile? Shear? Compression?) I know nothing about using birch just thought i'd clear up a bit of mechanics! Edited June 14, 2008 by joshvegas Quote
zyonsdream Posted June 14, 2008 Report Posted June 14, 2008 (edited) I used a piece of flamed burch on a Tele neck I did a while back. Used a cocobolo fretboard and so far, I've not recieved any reports of it being unstable I have a top around the shop with the same flame... just haven't found a reason to use it yet. I like burch becuase it has those brown specks in it that maple doesn't have. I also have some ambrosia burch too... Edited June 14, 2008 by zyonsdream Quote
Jaam Posted June 14, 2008 Report Posted June 14, 2008 Pukko also had a super awesome build with a flamed birch neck. Quote
orgmorg Posted June 15, 2008 Report Posted June 15, 2008 A high Modulus of elasticity means it can be deformed and returned to shape (much like a spring ) Yes, but more specifically, it means it takes a large amount of force to bend it past the point where it will not return to it's original shape. Hard maple has a high MOE, but it is rarely refered to as "springy" Quote
Bygde Posted June 15, 2008 Report Posted June 15, 2008 I'm building a guitar from birch, and with that I mean that every piece of wood is birch. So I can give a wood review once it's finished. One thing I can say is that it chews routerbits like candy. A new bit can't be used long at all before it needs replacement. Quote
fryovanni Posted June 15, 2008 Report Posted June 15, 2008 I am not sure about "springy and bendy"(I assume that does not imply a weakness ). If that means it will vibrate well, then I would probably agree. It is a great wood from what I can tell. I wouldn't hesitate to use it, especially if it is only for a top on a semi(what could you possibly have to worry about?). I know there are often big debates about general properties(the science guys) and the traditionalists who want history of use before they will accept a wood for instruments use. Fortunately, Birch is a wood that can satisfy everyone. It has a long history of use in drums and it often trades favor with maple as the most sought after choice for resonant charictoristics. It has without general properties that show its strength falling between commonly used neck woods(not pushing the low end or high, a no brainer). Then you have hands on users, it is not bad to work with(dries well, machines well, seems reasonably stable in service). There is my take, for whatever thats worth, Rich Quote
joshvegas Posted June 16, 2008 Report Posted June 16, 2008 (edited) I was being clever with the spring remark(admitedly not very ). I was trying to suggest in the post that a high modulus of elasticity on it's own is not enough of an indication of it's useful ness as a neck wood I'd freely admit however I seem to have not manage to convey that in any way! I was looking at birch just yesterday in a wood fair. what I saw of it it didn't strike me as an exciting wood, unless it's flamed, for a guitar top. Are you painting it? did i miss that in the posts? My only opinion on woods for guitars is that Local woods should be used wherever possible especially when perfectly good alternatives to the common ones are available! And they are also more interesting to me when something a bit unusual is used. Edited June 16, 2008 by joshvegas Quote
fryovanni Posted June 16, 2008 Report Posted June 16, 2008 I was being clever with the spring remark(admitedly not very ). I was trying to suggest in the post that a high modulus of elasticity on it's own is not enough of an indication of it's useful ness as a neck wood I'd freely admit however I seem to have not manage to convey that in any way! Using the general properties measured for various woods should not really be considered for more than what it is. A fair, but small sampling of typical charictoristics that can vary significantly from piece to piece. So that said, if we are going to make use of this data to help us feel our way around what may have potential. We have a few tests that would seem to be most relavent. Modulus of elasticity would be the more useful number as it is measuring resistance to deflection without permenant deformation or failure. A good clue as to stiffness. Density is also useful to some extent, but again both of these are going to vary from piece to piece(so take them for what they are worth). So from my point of view, knowing nothing more about the wood, and not having the actual pieces in my shop. I would start by looking at those numbers to approximate viability(of course compairing generic numbers of other commonly used woods gives us a sense of contrast). FWIW(and stricktly My opinion), Never try to micro critique woods based on general properties. There is WAY to much variation, and major consideration relating to grain orientation and possible flaws will apply(even factors which are difficult to detect such as micro fractures, face runnout, possible damage by bacteria during growth, heat stress.... the list goes on). Evaluate each bit individually. Peace,Rich Quote
Nothing Posted June 18, 2008 Author Report Posted June 18, 2008 Thanks guys. I'm either going to leave it natural with an oil finish or stain it with an oil finish. It may not be a very interesting or exciting wood but I do like it. ....waiting on parts Quote
copperhead Posted June 21, 2008 Report Posted June 21, 2008 birch has been referred to as "POOR MANS MAPLE" its pretty hard maybe not so hard as hard maple and not so bright sounding Quote
Nicko_Lps Posted June 21, 2008 Report Posted June 21, 2008 Im a carpenter,i work very often with birch.Its a hard wood,depends from were it is though,but i dont like that wood enough so i will use it for a guitar.Birch looks as structure a lot like maple and cherry.Also please have in mind that birch is not a very good wood to work with delicate projects as guitars because its not so stable... European birch is not so stable at all,stiff heavy and when you cut that wood it bends a lot.Be sure to plane the wood,leave it 1 week and see if it bends or whatever you guys call it.If what you have is euro birch,you better not use it at all for solid neck top body or whatever.I used it for 1 neck laminate no prob with that.If you wanna use birch for neck,do a laminated neck 3 or more pieces,plane the wood leave it for 2-3 days,when and if the planned wood make a curve be sure to glue opposite curves,i hope you understand me... I have over 3 cubic meters of birch stored at my workshop but still i wouldnt use that wood for nothing more than laminates.European woods are harder than the US ones,but they are not stable as US woods.If you have US birch and if it exist i dont know much,i used balkan birch that is awfull and Austria birch that is quite stable but still not what i would like... When you buy a piece of wood if you lift 2 same logs slabs or whatever at aprox. the same dimentions and you notice that one is a lot heavyer than the other(same wood species)avoid the heavy wood like hell.Heavyer woods are the most dangerous ones for bending after a while curve or whatever its called. Quote
Nothing Posted June 21, 2008 Author Report Posted June 21, 2008 Gotcha. Thanks a lot. It's a 1/4" laminate. I'll be using it for a top. I think I'll be good. Pick-up selection is on my mind now. Walnut Body blanks are about ready to rough cut to shape. Stuck on the neck (walnut) until I get parts. I have been rethinking my design. I want to be sure about it all before I cut. Quote
Nicko_Lps Posted June 21, 2008 Report Posted June 21, 2008 Gotcha. Thanks a lot. It's a 1/4" laminate. I'll be using it for a top. I think I'll be good. Pick-up selection is on my mind now. Walnut Body blanks are about ready to rough cut to shape. Stuck on the neck (walnut) until I get parts. I have been rethinking my design. I want to be sure about it all before I cut. If you use 1/4" top on a 1,5+" walnut body i dont think that you could have a problem with birch at the bend curve whatever its called part. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.