Xanthus Posted June 15, 2008 Report Posted June 15, 2008 The first thing that jumps to my mind is price. But I was playing my amp before a gig last night, and just kept thinking how much EASIER it would be to get a good tone out of an amp if you weren't limited to a 3-knob setup for tone shaping. Add to that the fact that a lot of people EQ their sound anyways, before the amp with a pedal, or after it with a rack. It just seems like such a better option. BASS, MID, and TREBLE are all pretty vague, and the same setting on one amp can be (and usually is) much different on another. However, a 6db boost at 1k is always the same. Give me a 15 band EQ, gain, and presence, and I'd be in business. Any thoughts? I don't know about amp production, so I don't know if there is anything elementary about it that I'm missing. Quote
Geo Posted June 15, 2008 Report Posted June 15, 2008 Well, what kind of amps are you generally playing? In my own experience, a good amp needs very little tone adjustment because it sounds good when you plug it in. I have a 5w Plexi-style amp where I never touch the tone controls because almost any setting (aside from turning the treble all the way up) sounds amazing. This is also my experience with old Fender amps. I just adjust the treble control to even out the sound (depends on the kind of pickup I'm playing) and then play, no more adjustment needed. Quote
Thoughtless 7 Posted June 15, 2008 Report Posted June 15, 2008 On my amps i usually just turn all the EQ and presence controls up to 10. If i have a pedal with EQ i usually put the bass up full, and just turn the treble down to about 8. I'm not a fan of having more EQ on an amp because its just adding more things that arent really needed. IMHO, the nicest amps with the nicest tone usually have as little controls as possible. My 1/2watt Gilmour only has tone and volumes and it sounds awesome. Quote
j. pierce Posted June 16, 2008 Report Posted June 16, 2008 Well, there's probably a few reasons - the first of which is illustrated by the responses of the posters above - there just aren't enough people for whom that's feature is worth enough to justify the added cost that amps with that included really sell well. The few amps you see with graphic EQs are aimed specifically at markets where this seems to make a difference - acoustic guitar amps, and some bass amps - and these are the markets where this feature seems to be in demand, at least enough for the companies to decide it's worth while. Personally, I think a well-done amp with a simple EQ is easier to set than a graphic EQ - it's pretty easy to get a terrible sound with a graphic EQ. Other than that - it's a factor of price. To make a graphic EQ, say a 15 band like you've asked for, you at least just multiplied the cost of the tone controls by 5, as far as the amount spent on pots, caps, and resistors. Of course, to make an EQ control that affects specific frequency bands, and fairly tightly (pretty much a necessity for a graphic EQ) you need active components - a passive EQ like the normal three knob deal won't have a tight enough range. So that adds price. Slider-type pots are more expensive and less reliable than rotating pots, at least in my experience. All those slider controls and extra parts mean the amp has to be bigger, which effects how many you can fit on a pallet and how much it costs you to ship them from your factory in China. It's all little things that add up in cost when you're manufacturing large numbers. And again, the price versus the demand means some marketing exec decided it wasn't a good idea. I think the other thing is just tradition - our idea of what a guitar amp should be was really formed in the 50's - most guitar amps are just extensions of designs that Fender and Marshall made back in the day. Back when tubes where the way amps where made, making a decent graphic EQ, and it's necessary active electronics where just too complex to do for a guitar amp. And guitar players are fairly conservative lot. I do often wonder why more modelling amps don't have the feature though - I guess it'd be a pain having to set your EQ a few bits at a time, given the limited inputs of some of them, but it seems like if it can all be done in software, the overhead is pretty low. OF course, I haven't messed around with these amps much, perhaps there is a way to do it in those amps. Quote
borge Posted June 16, 2008 Report Posted June 16, 2008 IMO only a bad amp needs an graphic eq......... and even then they can only help so much.... a huge part of an amps character is in the tonestack, while a T M B eq can seem simple, they actually have complex interactions, i think theres a "tonestack calculator" prog. out there that shows tonestack interaction for a few classic amps. Quote
Mattia Posted June 16, 2008 Report Posted June 16, 2008 I think it depends...if you're viewing your amplifier as, well, amplification (like vocal amps and acoustic amps do), graphic EQs make sense. If you're looking at your (tube) amp as part of your instrument, then the tone stack, controls, interactivity, and 'inaccuracies' all contribute to creating a specific type of tone. not a jack of all trades, certainly, but something musical an interesting nonetheless. Then again, when it comes to amps, I pretty much like to go guitar -> tube amp, maybe with a boost pedal in front and an effects loop around the back for reverb (unless it's on board). Quote
Geo Posted June 16, 2008 Report Posted June 16, 2008 Just a few more thoughts on this subject... If you have a good electric guitar with good pickups, you already have a pretty unique and harmonically rich signal coming out of the guitar. Now you need an amp that won't interfere with that too much and will only add good coloration. Most classic tube amp designs do just that. To my mind, a graphic EQ is more suited to bass or setting a permanent EQ for a sound system in a room (where you want to adjust certain frequencies to balance out the peculiar "room sound"). I guess it's also useful for recording, when you're trying to get each instrument to fit into its "frequency shelf" so you can produce a clear, loud, realistic mix. (For example, rolling off 100 hz on guitar tracks so you hear seperation between the 6-string and 4-string) For playing live, I don't see the need for a graphic EQ, but that's just me. Rather than say, "I'd like my 5k dropped by about 2 decibels", I might just turn the treble down a little (5k is treble, right? ) Quote
ToddW Posted June 16, 2008 Report Posted June 16, 2008 IMO only a bad amp needs an graphic eq......... and even then they can only help so much.... a huge part of an amps character is in the tonestack, while a T M B eq can seem simple, they actually have complex interactions, i think theres a "tonestack calculator" prog. out there that shows tonestack interaction for a few classic amps. I think I downloaded it from Duncan Amps, but it's on a different computer so I can't check now. I used it to get close to the values I wound up with on a tone stack I put in my daughter's amp. That was a one knob deal , but the calculator has your standard fender TMB, Bax, Big Muff, and others. Too techy for me, but no reason big mfgr's couldn't put an EQ in an amp for very little money. But were are you going to put it? After the first gain stage, between the pre-amp and power stage, between the amp and the cab? The TMB passive filters in a fender or marshal are in the pre-amp. run that sound through a few more tube sections, and you're pretty far from accurate. If you want that much control, Xanthus, go look at the London Power Studio Amps! Todd Quote
Paul Marossy Posted June 18, 2008 Report Posted June 18, 2008 no reason big mfgr's couldn't put an EQ in an amp for very little money I agree, it would be pretty cheap. But it does present all the challenges that you list. A few amps have had them over the years, Boogies, Lab Series L5, and some others. I think for a two channel amp, a graphic EQ might be of some use in getting more distinct sounds. I don't think it's a real selling feature for most guitarists, however... Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.