srt Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 What are some solutions to allergy problems? I've never been allergic to anything in my life, but am using some grenadilla for one of my current projects and I'm having reactions to it. About a month ago, I re-sawed it and stupidly let the dust blow right in my face... A half hour later my throat hurt and was swelling, breathing was difficult. Benedryl and an inhaler cleared it up. Again tonight I did some very light routing and sanding (finish the joint for bookmatching) and had the same reaction. I thought I wouldn't get enough dust to bother me, wrong I guess... No skin reactions either time, just respiratory. Will a respirator allow me to continue with this wood? Or should I just stop using it? If the grenadilla is giving me problems, will other rosewoods? I used cocobolo a few years ago, and camatillo, bocote, monterillo, ebony, african mahog, etc. recently with no reactions, but I'm a bit worried now that they might start. Anyone have similar experience? Advice? sucks, I really like rosewoods... Thanks in advance. -srt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InSasquatchCountry Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Ive got the same problem. Sometimes I wear a dust mast while doing yard work even. I would think that if you can keep out you'll be fine. I am allergic to oak (amongst many other things) and whenever I'm working with it my nose gets really runny until I take a shower and get it all off of me and my clothes. So use a good resporatior and try to keep the dust out of your eyes. After working, take a shower and leave your clothes in the laundry room so not to track it into your house or room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 I can't be around any kind of sawdust without a respirator. I don't even want to think of breathing near cocobolo dust. I'd probably end up hospitalized. I take 180 mg of Allegra (fexofenadine) every day, and skin contact with some wood dust still turns my skin red. I have to double up on the Allegra if that happens (I checked with my doctor first). I have a couple more jobs to do in cocobolo, but after that I think I'm going to have to stop building with it. Maple doesn't bother me, skin-wise, very much, but just about everything else does to some degree. So, I just make sure I take my allergy medicine, wear gloves when needed, wear a respirator all the time (I used to just use the cheaper fiber masks but they don't work well enough for me anymore), and wash my hands, arms, and face a lot when I'm around sawdust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Titebond reacts with the skin on my fingers. The skin literally disappears until its quite sore, and soft skin tissue. Its taken me two years to work out which product was doing it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srt Posted June 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Thanks for the answers. Do you find that an allergy to one rosewood species means you will be allergic to other rosewoods? I was planning on using cocobolo for a neck, but may change my mind on that now... Sounds like a respirator should solve my problem? I'll be getting one before continuing for sure! Thanks again -srt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Cocobolo is much worse than any other wood for me, other rosewoods included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 (edited) Cocobolo is very iffy for most people. If you develop an allergic reaction it seems to compound itself everytime you have contact. At least thats my case and others I have talked with. I have a bunch of it and it's in a corner and I don't touch it without gloves and respirator. I would suggest at the least a dust mask since you are showing sings of reactions to some rosewoods. At best, go by your local auto paint store and pick up a GOOD respirator. It's much cheaper (cost wise) than say Woodcraft or Rockler. Also use gloves to handle the wood in question. Otherwise don't use it or take a chance. be safe instead of sorry. It's better to be seen than viewed if you get my drift. I'm working on trading off all my Cocobolo for something I can work with. Health and safety should be first and foremost to all. Just my .02cents worth Mike Edited June 17, 2008 by MiKro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 I'll second Mike's comment that sensitivity to cocobolo can get worse with repeated exposures. The first time I worked with it, I just got a little itchy. Since then, I get red spots and worse itching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshvegas Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 What about lignum vitae Rick thats has medicinal qualities so perhaps you'd be alright with that. You might be allergic to the weight of the guitar though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddW Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 You're sensitized, so it's quite possible you'll have a reaction to related woods, and it's quite possible your rxn will get stronger. I'd recommend a good dust collector and a good dust mask to most people, but if you're having shortness of breath, it's probably worth seeing your doctor. I manage with the same 3M masks I used to use to see TB patients, but if that doesn't cut it for you: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?famil...mp;mode=details might work. and Bill's site here: http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/DocsOrders.cfm may have some info for you. Be safe! Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Good dust collector, maximum prtective gear (gloves, tyvek bunny suit), and at the very, very LEAST a respirator system with fine particulate (dust) filters, not just a disposable dust mask; fine dust and allergens are a little more insidious and omnipresent than a couple of stray TB bacteria if you're actively sanding wood. Also, 'medicinal qualities' means exactly squat, other than it's biologically active. if it's got effects, it sure as hell has side effects, and it can certainly trigger allergies. Overall, though, if you're getting respiratory reactions, avoid it wherever possible and don't work it anywhere you can leave dust hanging around that you're ever likely to enter without full protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshvegas Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Also, 'medicinal qualities' means exactly squat, other than it's biologically active. if it's got effects, it sure as hell has side effects, and it can certainly trigger allergies. I know that but as the woodchips can be used to make a tea and it can easy coughs and arthritis it would suggest it was probably not to bad on the allergy front compared to a big ole block of cocobolo. You could be allergic, potentially, to any wood so perhaps we shouldn't use wood anymore! Didn't mean to upset you mattia I'll try and be more careful in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 It's just a pet peeve of mine; I'm a med student (for about a month and a half, anyway...), and when folks start waffling about the evils of 'chemical' medicines and then run off to use 'natural' fuzzy wuzzy herbal remedies (which, yes, often work) in the belief they're in some way better, safer, or potentially less dangerous, I get more than a little exasperated... (and don't get me started on homeopathy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshvegas Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Oh dude I'm right there with you! I was merely suggesting that it might not be terrible to work with if you have allergies! I agree 110% pump me full of whatever works that's wahat I say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddW Posted June 19, 2008 Report Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) It's just a pet peeve of mine; I'm a med student (for about a month and a half, anyway...), and when folks start waffling about the evils of 'chemical' medicines and then run off to use 'natural' fuzzy wuzzy herbal remedies (which, yes, often work) in the belief they're in some way better, safer, or potentially less dangerous, I get more than a little exasperated... (and don't get me started on homeopathy) Hey Mattia, show a little respect for your profession's history Homeopathy was a better theory than what allopathic medicine had before Hahnemann came up with it. More importantly, competition from homeopathy played a large part in moving alopathic physicians to test their theories and study outcomes, building the foundation of what you're studying now. Unfortunately, most people who take homeopathic medicines have no idea what the theory behind it is and think it's the same as herbal medicines. You may find the hard part is to refrain from explaining the difference to your patients who think their homeopathic medicine is working on their pain or their allergies. Because if you destroy their misconception by telling them about percussion and water molecule bond angles . . . you'll lose a perfectly good placebo affect and have to put them on a "real" medicine with actual side effects. As to whether an N95 or N98 particle filter is sufficient, I think you'll note I suggested a visit to his doctor because he was having respiratory symptoms. It's all well and good for you to recommend a ton of protective gear, but allergic rxns can be dose dependent (which is why this years pollen counts in the US are bothering so many people). From what you know, SRT is not having an anaphylactic reaction at this time. He's not getting an urticarial rxn or angioedema which would increase your level of concern that he might be heading in that direction, and, you don't know his medical history. Without that history, you might want to avoid spending his money. I don't know if he can, but if SRT can manage with a DC and an N95 mask, I do know he'll be much happier than if he has to wear a tyvek suit and respirator just to sand some boards. Oh, and congrats on getting into med school. Hope you enjoy it a lot! But do be careful about those "stray" AFB. They're getting pretty resistant to a lot of drugs and those drugs can put a serious hurting on your weekend beverage choices. Regards, Todd Edited June 19, 2008 by ToddW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Hi Todd, I'm actually almost done with the med school, get my MD in August, starting the equivalent of residency come September! Homeopathy was a less harmful theory before we got decent pharmacotherapy, but I don't know that I'd call it a 'better theory' since it's essetially expensive bottles of solvent. Not to say that isn't absurdly useful as a fairly broadly accepted placebo (there are plenty of times it would be nice to be able to ethically prescribe sugar pills, so I suspect some of those homeopathic GPs have got something positive going for them...) Reading back, I wasn't all too clear, so let me empahsize: I agree with everything you wrote. I wholly agree with the 'visit your doctor' recommendation for woods you're having respiratory allergic responses to. But given that you'll not likely get an answer within a single visit, protecting yourself from dust seems wise, and cost-effective. I'd go so far as to say avoid stuff you're sensitised to completely if at all possible, but if you must work with the stuff, work with maximum protective gear. I'm not (currently) allergic to any woods other than iroko, which gives me very slight skin irritation, but I like cocobolo and pau ferro too much to try sensitising myself with them. A Tyvek bunny suit (equivalent of) costs maybe 6 euros, and can be reused several times (I don't wear it all the time for all woods, after all, but I do wear the respirator if I'm using anything other than edge tools), and a respirator with fine filters pays for itself pretty quickly if you look at the costs of good quality, high rated disposable masks. And then there are the reasons listed on Bill Pentz's site for good dust control. I figure a total budget of about 60 dollars will get you high quality protective gear for skin, lungs and ears that should last a good many projects/guitars, and most of that cost is a one-time investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddW Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Hey Mattia, I'm really sorry if that last post was a bit harsh sounding, and it's good to know the suit is cheap, because I may get one to spray laquer. I wasn't really worried SRT was going to go out and waste a bunch of money because you recommended the suit and such. My real issue is with a doctor, or future doctor, making recommendations without enough information. Think about it this way. That bunny suit is cheap, but it still doesn't sound like something I'd want to wear in a warm workshop. Especially if there is no reason to do so. And we don't know if it would be at all useful for SRT. While we have reason to believe SRT needs respiratory protection, everyone should be using respiratory protection, so pointing out some options there seems reasonable. Because your advice may be given extra credence by some, I urge you to avoid giving any advice that might be taken as authoratative, or that may not be correct. The minimal knowlege we have leaves us with very few ethical option of recommending avoidance, recommending maximum protection even though it may not be needed, or seeing an allergist. They're all reasonably safe, but the first two may spend a lot of SRT's money when he doesn't need to spend it, and in the bunny suit case or even the respirator, it might make life unpleasant when it doesn't have to be. A visit to an allergist isn't going to tell someone what woods they're allergic to. We wouldn't challenge a patient with wood dust after all. The reason to see an allergist is to get an assessment of what the risks are and what precautions should be taken based on the medical history and the patient's preferences. That requires a lot of information, and we have very little. Why was an inhaler handy? Asthma, COPD? What inhaler was it? Albuterol, anticholinergic, steroid? Likely albuterol or another beta agonist given the fast response, but you're not allowed to assume anything as of August, right? We know there was no skin reaction to the wood . . . that's good, but any history of skin reactions? If there were, were they contact dermatitis or urticarial? Any history of anaphylaxis? We don't even know SRT's age or gender. Would you recommend skin protection from wood dust to an asthmatic patient having isolated respiratory symptoms, and no other concerning history. And even knowing respiratory protection will help, we don't know how much is needed here, so we need to be careful making recommendations. I'm fine with anyone pointing out the options that are available and the precautions everyone should take. But you're not anyone, you're a doc, so I hold you to a higher standard. Sucks, doesn't it. All that studying and now you've got an a hole like me telling you it means you shouldn't give out advice. BUT, definite points to you for noting that homeopathy can be more dangerous now that there are options that work by mechanisms other than the placebo effect. It means you have time to consider how to deal with that issue. Years ago I saw another doc's patient on a walk in. Her homeopath was trying to treat her Crohn's disease so she didn't want to try anything that might interfere with his treatments. That was my eye opener to one of the dangers of alternative medicines, because despite chronic pain and bleeding with a hemoglobin under 10, she was adamant she wanted to give the homeopathic therapy another few months. So I told her all about homeopathy, and I actually knew enough about it and it's history to give her accurate information. Unfortunately, young idiot that I was, I came across as condescending and I just pissed her off to the point that she decided to wait a week or more until her regular doc came back from vacation, before she'd talk to anyone else at the practice. I think you'll do better than I did! Funniest thing about it, I'm a big admirer of Hahnemann. Malaria causes shaking chills, quinine causes shaking chills and treats the malaria . . . lightbulb and homeopathy is born. Most docs were giving out snake oil and applying leaches, that guy was looking for associations and a way to test them. Doesn't matter to me that the theory didn't pan out, he moved medicine in the right direction. Hope you do the same. Regards, Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Once again I find myself in complete agreement with you. The advice thing is generally something I'm very careful about, both online and with family friends. I only give medical advice to my own patients, and the above may have been construed as an appeal from authority - and as you rightly say, we're held to higher standards than Joe Forum and his anecdotal reports. This is the internet, so caveats always apply - in case anyone hasn't figured it out yet: if you have symptoms, don't ask questions on an internet forum, see a flesh and blood doctor. Not a website, not some doctor-to-be on a forum who's wearing his 'guitarmaking' hat. Also important to note: I know my basic allergology, but it's hardly my area of interest or expertise... Just to be clear: I recommend respiratory protection to everyone not as a future doctor, but as a woodworker. Not just (or even mainly) on an allergy level, but purely due to the dangers of wood dust - depending on the source you read, either some or all of it is carcinogenic. So I figure maximum protection is always the best solution. As I stated above I consider the respirator essential safety equipment for anyone working with wood dust, and use the bunny suit for stuff I think I am at higher risk of reacting to and that I want to keep working with. Website you might enjoy if you want some reasoned discourse/argument with the alt.medicine crowd from a british doctor with a sharp tounge and a sharper pen: www.badscience.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddW Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 (edited) I recommend respiratory protection to everyone not as a future doctor, but as a woodworker. Not just (or even mainly) on an allergy level, but purely due to the dangers of wood dust - depending on the source you read, either some or all of it is carcinogenic. So I figure maximum protection is always the best solution. As I stated above I consider the respirator essential safety equipment for anyone working with wood dust, and use the bunny suit for stuff I think I am at higher risk of reacting to and that I want to keep working with. 1+ Edited to add: But I don't have a bunny suit . . . yet! Edited June 21, 2008 by ToddW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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