Consumer Warning

[avengers63]

DISCLAIMER: I'm not sure this is where it should be posted. All events are true and accurate and are told as a personal experience and warning to others.

When I joined this board, I went to the main page and found a number of mail order retailers that sell guitar parts. The ones I likes were bookmarked for future use. This is my experience about International Luthier Supply.

I placed an order with them on 10/3/08 through the mail. I had to use the mail because their website had no shopping cart system. The total came to $36.70. I printed out the order form, filled it out, mailed it in along with the check, and waited. The website clearly stated that orders paid by check would be held until the check cleared.

Assuming the check is deposited immediately, it should have taken only a week or a little longer for the check to clear, taking mail time into account. The check didn't clear until 10/28/08, three weeks later. OK... they're just slow or the mail is slow or they were on vacation. No big deal - they're back and I'll be getting by stuff inside a week.

A week passed with no package. I called the number listed on the website to check up on it. The number has been disconnected. This is a bad sign. I emailed them to the address listed on the website. After a week, I had no response.

I then went onto Whois to look up the info for the domain registration. There was a name and phone number listed, as well as a physical address. The address matched the address listed on the website, but the phone number did not. I called it - it was disconnected too.

This past Saturday I went back on the website. It is no longer up. Re-checking the Whois listing, the domain name registration expires on 11/20/08. There is still a contact email listed. Using that address AND the one listed in the Whois file, I fired off another letter to them stating the facts I found, their lack of responses, and my suspicions of mail fraud. I told them that if I did not hear from them somehow by C.O.B. today (11/17/08), I would file a complaint with the USPS for mail fraud. I included my home phone number in the email. I was hoping that the threat would scare them into action. No response came.

Today when I got home from work, I filed my complaint with the USPS.

[Daniel Sorbera]

Hmm thats weird. Maybe they went out of business and no one bothered to take down the website?

[fookgub]

Hmm thats weird. Maybe they went out of business and no one bothered to take down the website?

But why cash the check, then?

[Prostheta]

Businesses going under would rather cash a cheque and leave cleaning up CS to receivers or the banks than maintain relations direct. Unscrupulous people would possibly consider putting the money in the bank as the majority of people out there won't go to reasonable lengths to recover it.

Talk to your bank - they may have the muscle to pull back the money although they may want to charge you, or such a "small amount" might pass under their attention spans. Just what unscrupulous vendors bank on.

Sorry dude - you're probably not going to see that money back in a hurry, although legally everything is on your side. It will probably cost just as much to recover that money as it would to write it off.

Unfocused opinion above. At least it wasn't three figures worth of money or worse. Sorry dude. I hope it resolves. Just balance $35 of your sanity vs. $35 of exacted revenge, time, stress and cost. You should probably write it off.

[avengers63]

Don't worry - I'm not about to invest any money in getting back $35. If the USPS doesn't want to do anything, then there's probably not much to be done. I might talk to my back just to see what they're willing to do, but that's as far as it'd go. Maybe a $10-$15 fee, but certainly no more.

[soapbarstrat]

If that's the same ' International Luthiers Supply, INC' that used to be in Tulsa OK, I have made only one order from them, and that was in early 1991, and they pissed me off because I ordered 2 #111 Dremel bits and they sent me 2 #110 bits instead. (Don't feel so bad now, after reading what they've done to you - guess this proves I AM DAMN HARD TO PLEASE)

So all this time I have kept their 1990 catalog inside the original brown envelope, with " DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM THIS PLACE- SENT WRONG ITEMS" written in magic marker on the envelope, so I wouldn't forget.

[guitar101]

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/...inc-c83379.html

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.music.m...9113df5f5eba903

http://www.violinmaking.com/violin_supply.html

http://www.sonicbands.com/showthread.php?t=45133

Yeah I've heard of them, unfortunately after I did business with them They owe me $130 dollars. You won't get a reply from them I tried numerous times. I've debated calling the police because they make a habit of not shipping after they recieve payment.

[avengers63]

With such a glowing history of customer service, shall we try and convince Brian to remove them from the site's directory of suppliers? That's how I got their info in the first place. It's not Brian's fault by any means, but removing them from the list of recommended sellers might stop this from happening to someone else.

[Prostheta]

I think there is sufficient case, yes. I presume you have PM'ed Brian to this effect?

[Bmth Builder]

Are they actually out of buisness, or just being very unprofessional?

Sucks they stitched you over,

*edit woopsie, thanks soap*

Edited November 18, 2008 by Neil Beith

[soapbarstrat]

I think maybe someone is getting ILS and LMI mixed up ?

[avengers63]

I think there is sufficient case, yes. I presume you have PM'ed Brian to this effect?

I have not. I didn't know what the procedures would be - whether I should do it it a mod. I'll do it today.

I think maybe someone is getting ILS and LMI mixed up?

Someone else may be, but not me. I know exactly who I wrote the check to, which website I ordered from, and who is shafting me. This is the ILS in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

[Bmth Builder]

^ I think he was talking to me

[Rick500]

Just in case there is any lingering confusion, LMI is still good, so don't hesitate to order from them.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Rick500

[Daniel Sorbera]

Just in case there is any lingering confusion, LMI is still good, so don't hesitate to order from them.

+1 to that.

[Prostheta]

I think there is sufficient case, yes. I presume you have PM'ed Brian to this effect?

I have not. I didn't know what the procedures would be - whether I should do it it a mod. I'll do it today.

NP. Done.

[ihocky2]

As a future consideration for any large purchases where anyone has to physically mail the payment, use a Postal Money Order. Anytime I get over $50 I use a PMO. I have to go to the post office to mail the check anyway, so what is a few extra minutes to get a money order from them. Private vendors like them better because it is as good as cash. For the buyer, it is a little safer, and depending on the amount a lot safer.

In a situation like this, there was really no mail fraud, the letter was sent and got to the designated address untampered (presumably) and was then the check was cashed. This is more outright theft. The USPS will say they did their part and was their hands of it (I've been through it with any ebay purchase). When you use a PMO it is issued by the post office, so now they are involved and you can pressure them into action. As and additional bonus, if you are warning the vendor about possible legal action for failure to comply, they are tampering with a Postal Money Order and now any criminal charges are Federal and not local.

[ProjectGuitar.com]

This is the first I had heard about it but the offending web site has been erased from the main site. I hope everything works out in the end.