chops1983 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Hey All, Work has gone abit quiet in the building industry where i live so i thought it would be a good time to start a couple of new projects. First guitar is a semi hollow single cut. Body: Jarrah Neck: Vic Ash with rosewood fretboard. Not sure if im gonna have a set neck in this one yet, ill know when i start to rout out the neck pocket. Two Halves Internal close up Second Guitar is a solid body double cut. Body: Spotted Gum with a figured Jarrah top. Neck: Spotted Gum with a rosewood fretboard. This guitar will have a set neck and im gonna attempt a PRS like carve in the top of this guitar. Spotted Gum Figured Jarrah top Sorry about the brief discriptions guys but im hungover as hell. Let me know what you think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Spotted gum, huh? Make sure to post your opinion on the suitability of the wood for guitars, for posterity's sake. I really dig those F holes. (Wait, did that sound dirty?) -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmth Builder Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Did you paint the inside black just so the f holes show up as black? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Spotted gum? never heard of it before. Looking forward to how these turn out. Keep us updated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Did you paint the inside black just so the f holes show up as black? Yes and no! The f holes already looked black before i painted the inside but it looks much neater when someone has a sticky beak through them. Spotted Gum is just another ozzie hardwood. At the moment im new to building guitars and i just want to be original and try things different and see where it takes me. I get all my timber from our local joinery and he saw this bit of timber and put it aside for me. Its really heavy though so im going to have to do some sort of weight reduction before i stick on the jarrah top. Anyway off to the shed to do some work on them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 So i have a question for you all. How do you guys rout around your horns and endgrain sections? I had a mishap this morning. When i was routing around the horns unfortunately the bit grabbed into the grain and has torn it a little also breaking the bit. There is still about 1-1.5mm before it is flush with the template so it may not be too bad and I think the other fatal mistake i made was i took the relief cuts on the bandsaw a little too close to the outline which has probably not helped. Some Photo's Ive now come to the conclusion that maybe for those points i should flip the guitar upside down and always rout with the grain(obvious really but i haven't had this problem before. I usually do light sweeps with the direstion of the cutter and then take the final pass the normal way). But flipping the guitar would mean buying another flushcut bit with the bearing at the top(expensive) or to flip the template. However the problem with flipping the template is that i use screws to hold the template to the body. What is your methods at these points? Im hoping all is not lost though. I will take the router bit back to the tool shop hopefully for an exchange, as it was $80 and finish routing the guitar and then make a decision on if its F****d! Cheers Chad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Wow, I've never had a bit break like that. Was it new? What brand is it? Were you cutting the whole thickness of the body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 wow thats so weird! ive never had that happen to me, i always invest 20 bucks in a new bit when mine get dull though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I would say the best way to avoid that is to not cut the whole thickness of the body at a time. I like that semi-hollow, though, makes me wish I hadn't changed my plans and gone ahead and made one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Router bits are evil.... I always make my templates 1/8 in big so I have a chance to save a body when the router bite happens. I always run into problems when I get greedy with the router. If you buy a short 1/2" template router bit and make your first cut shallow (less than 25% the thickness) then come back with a bigger 3/4" router bit and make your next rough cut 50% of the body. Then make a final clean up pass You will get better results. I also think the three flute router bits produce less tear out. MLCS has really nice low price bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I always route my guitar bodies full depth with one pass on the router. I make sure that I bandsaw the shape to no more than 1/16" away from the line so the router does not have to remove much and work too hard. It looks like you took too much off and/or were climb cutting with your router and it grabbed on you. Feed direction is very important especially with long bits. Check out these articles: Router kickback Climb cutting Here is my setup using a Whiteside downshear router bit: Go very slowly around the cutaway section and make sure that the piece is held very firmly ensuring a steady feed rate. And to repeat what Kenny said always use a sharp bit. Dull bits are dangerous. I use my bit exclusively for body perimeter routing and replace or resharpen it once every 12 months. ~David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Oh, one more thing: make yourself a router table. Cutting 2" of wood with a handheld router is never going to produce consistent results. This can be as simple as mounting your router underneath you work bench and cutting a hole for the cutter. My cuts are incredibly smooth. After routing I start sanding at 220 grit on most woods. ~David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Thanks for all the feedback guys! To answer a few questions. The router bit is only 6 months old, but in saying that, this is only the third body and about the 5th pass around a guitar body so the bit is practically brand new. I was talking to one of my neighbours who is a boat builder and i showed him the bit, he seems to think there was a hairline fracture in the tungsten going by the colour of the blade where the fracture happened, which with a few people saying they have never seen this, its becoming more evident. Its not a cheap bit either at $80 or so. Myka I agree with your comment on the router table. Holding the workpiece rather than the router will give much more control. Ill have to have a look into making a decent workbench. Also that body you showed in your picture, i noticed you have hollowed the entire body leaving no block where the bridge would go. How do they go for feedback? Im assuming thats a hollowbody electric. That was my original plan but i thought i better play it safe with a block under the bridge. All is not lost though. Im going to finish routing the body and just reshape the cutouts a little deeper on both sides and hopefully ill get away with it. Ill post some pics of the outcome. Just give me a week to get a new bit etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Router bits are evil.... I always make my templates 1/8 in big so I have a chance to save a body when the router bite happens. I always run into problems when I get greedy with the router. If you buy a short 1/2" template router bit and make your first cut shallow (less than 25% the thickness) then come back with a bigger 3/4" router bit and make your next rough cut 50% of the body. Then make a final clean up pass You will get better results. I also think the three flute router bits produce less tear out. MLCS has really nice low price bits. Are MLCS bits good? Do you use them? They seem really cheap compared to tools over in oz. Going on experience is to buy good quality tools, its saves you in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I've used several bits from MLCS for a long while now and they are still very sharp and do a great job. I have bits from several other places and out of them the MLCS are my favorites. Sharp, strong, good prices, clean cuts. No problems with them for me. They also have several types now like the Katana's and the triple fluted bits which I've been wanting to give a try, but I've had no issues with the straight bits, sheer bits, I even have an upcut spiral for truss rods that works great and was cheap. A flush trim and a pattern bit that have treated me well. I know that many people go strictly with Whiteside bits from places like Routerbits.com and I was going to as well, until I found MLCS which was slightly cheaper and had free shipping in the US, so I tried those bits to see how they were and they've really treated me well and are still sharp even after using at least one of those bits as a planer on some very hard woods. So, I think you'd be fine with Whiteside of MLCS bits. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myka Guitars Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) Also that body you showed in your picture, i noticed you have hollowed the entire body leaving no block where the bridge would go. How do they go for feedback? Im assuming thats a hollowbody electric. That was my original plan but i thought i better play it safe with a block under the bridge. Here's a link to one of these completed: Dragonfly #027 It has more feedback than a solidbody or a semi-hollow. The top is carved like an archtop with parallel braces to add more of an acoustic archtop tone to the electric guitar. Depending on material choices, how the top is carved, how thick the back is, and how stiff the braces are the amount of feedback can be controlled to some degree. Playing technique and volume levels will make a difference as well. There is a way to set up the amp and guitar volumes so a controlled feedback is maintained (or eliminated depending on what you want to do). ~David Edited January 18, 2009 by Myka Guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 I've used several bits from MLCS for a long while now and they are still very sharp and do a great job. I have bits from several other places and out of them the MLCS are my favorites. Sharp, strong, good prices, clean cuts. No problems with them for me. They also have several types now like the Katana's and the triple fluted bits which I've been wanting to give a try, but I've had no issues with the straight bits, sheer bits, I even have an upcut spiral for truss rods that works great and was cheap. A flush trim and a pattern bit that have treated me well. I know that many people go strictly with Whiteside bits from places like Routerbits.com and I was going to as well, until I found MLCS which was slightly cheaper and had free shipping in the US, so I tried those bits to see how they were and they've really treated me well and are still sharp even after using at least one of those bits as a planer on some very hard woods. So, I think you'd be fine with Whiteside of MLCS bits. J Cheers rentis for the down low. Looks like i will be purchasing a few new router bits! For work of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hey Guys, So i got abit of progress done on these two. On the semi hollow i have routed the binding channels and got the necks on both rough cut. Rough cut both necks Binding channel from front right Binding Chan from front left I also got the rosewood fingerboards from stewmac.I think i got fairly lucky because the figure on both pieces is quite nice. Singlecut fingerboard Doublecut Fingerboard When im not building guitars and the swell is not huge where i'am, i go for the odd abalone dive. We got a couple of good sized greenlips and i thought "why not use the shell for some logo inlays?". So instead of paying money to stew for some blanks, i decided to have a crack at shaping the letters of my logo out of the shell. I used the bandsaw to cut the shell into small squares abit bigger than the letters. Then used the belt sander to get them flat and i shaped them with a cheap set of small jellewry files. It took a fair bit of time, about 2hours and i had a couple of goes at the C. Lucky my last name isn't schwazzennegger or something Caro logo on the same neck material Caro logo close up The O on the logo isn't quite up to the same standard as the others so i will redo it! Just a quick question for you all. On the doublecut i wanted to keep the headstock natural with the abalone inlay, but i had to glue small ears on it to get the width. Unfortunately i was scraping the barrel for some scrap off the neck. Ive matched the grain aswell as i could out of what i had left but there is definately colour difference in the timber. What do you guys think i should do? Leave it natural or paint it black like my other headstocks! Cheers Chad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 You could always add a veneer to the headstock, like some black fiber veneer or ebony, it would cover the color discoloration on top and on bottom if you did both and would look nice with the inlay. Pearl in dark wood always looks sweet. The grain does match pretty nicely, good job on that, have you wetted the headstock to see how big of difference it looks when it will be finished. Sometimes once finished it'll look better or worse than it does dry. Check it out and see. Painted black is cool too, though if the coloration doesn't look bad I might be tempted to just add an ebony veneer on top and the rest natural. Anyway you do it will look fine I'm sure. Great work on the projects so far, everything looks good. Really nice choice on fingerboards and inlay. Did you end up ordering any router bits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 You could always add a veneer to the headstock, like some black fiber veneer or ebony, it would cover the color discoloration on top and on bottom if you did both and would look nice with the inlay. Pearl in dark wood always looks sweet. The grain does match pretty nicely, good job on that, have you wetted the headstock to see how big of difference it looks when it will be finished. Sometimes once finished it'll look better or worse than it does dry. Check it out and see. Painted black is cool too, though if the coloration doesn't look bad I might be tempted to just add an ebony veneer on top and the rest natural. Anyway you do it will look fine I'm sure. Great work on the projects so far, everything looks good. Really nice choice on fingerboards and inlay. Did you end up ordering any router bits? Cheers jm. Yeah i did order four router bits. A 25mm inverted flush cut bit , a triple wing flush cut and a normal straight flush cut bit both 50mm cutting depth and a regular 12x50mm straight bit for routing my neck pockets. Probably saved like $150 dollars buying over the net from america than our tool shops. Router bits are just so expensive over here in oz. Yeah i thought about a veneer for the headstock but im undecided. Ill try wetting it first and seeing what it looks like. The good news was i got a replacement flush cutting bit and finished routing the d/c. The tear goes in about 4mm so i decided to just take the cutaways abit deeper on this guitar. It would be a shame to waste this bit of spotted gum. Ill post some more pics tomorrow when i get some more work done. Have to do some real work today and gets some quotes off! Chad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hey all, Ive got abit more progress done but if i had the router bits im waiting for i reckon i would have the single cut complete and be doing some work on the d/c. So i slotted and dotted both fingerboards. and decided to complete the s/c neck I was originally going to paint this guitar a solid colour but ive changed my mind. I like the grain to much in this Jarrah. I really like the way this bit of rosewood contrasts with the body!Let me know if you like the natural finish for this guitar. Fingerboard next to the body Hopefully if im not working tomorrow i will reshape a template for the d/c and rout that to the new size and cut the top of that to fit. I have the d/c neck to finish shaping the headstock and rest of the neck. I could also start the carve on the d/c if i get to it! Cheers Chad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Got a bit more done today. Binded the bottom side of the s/c. Didn't take a pic of that until i do both sides. Gonna wait till i rout the neck pocket before i do the front edge. Reshaped the d/c today. Not sure if im entirely happy with it yet. I feel it needs a little more off the hips now and probably abit off the sides of the butt!The more i look at it the more i like it though.Looks better with the neck. Don't mind the Japanese workboots. Decided to have a crack at the ribcage carve on the back. Is that what you call it? No progress for awhile i think now. Have to go up to Perth to do some work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metz guitar paint Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Theyre looking real good,got a question for ya is it possible to use a thinly sliced Jarra burl as a guitar top,I once lived in Margaret River and saw some wicked table tops made from a Jarra burl ,just wondering! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Theyre looking real good,got a question for ya is it possible to use a thinly sliced Jarra burl as a guitar top,I once lived in Margaret River and saw some wicked table tops made from a Jarra burl ,just wondering! I don't see why not. As long as you have the equipment to slice a thin veneer. I have recently being looking around for good timber suppliers and have met a couple of guys who have some wicked jarrah in their yards. Burls, curls and all sorts of figure. Its just a matter of getting to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Hey, Well im back from Perth and have got some work done on the s/c! I wasn't sure if this guitar was gonna be a set neck or a bolt on but i routed the neck pocket today and have gone with the setneck option. I don't know if anyone else gets excited when the neck and body meet but its a special moment i think! Neck joint. Also got the p/u cavities routed. Front shot Had abit of a tearout in the corner of the neck p/u cavity but it shouldn't be a problem. Looking down guitar So im hoping to get the neck shaped, binding on the top glued and holes drilled for the Bridge, tailpiece and other controls done this weekend. Hopefully glue the neck in and start to finish this one early next week as i have been offered a 3 week stint up north in the mining towns building houses starting the end of feb. Edited February 12, 2009 by chops1983 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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