Rockhorst Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 (edited) A friend of mine found this left handed RR4 in the trash. This other friend of mine, being left handed, decided it would be cool if we'd make it into a proper guitar again. Photos (as we found it): This is what we hope to end up with in the end (except for the shark fin inlays): Some in progress pics will follow shortly (as well as a bunch of questions ). Edited May 4, 2009 by Rockhorst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 nice find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Nice find, I hope it turns out well for you. I am not sure of your plans for all of the fixes, but for the wing tips don't try and rebuild them. I've seen people try using wood putty, body putty (aka Bondo), or gluing new blocks on to the end grain. They all end up breaking off again really easily. I would just try and reshape the wings a little to blend in the missing area and then any minor imperfections fill with body putty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Agreed, don't rebuild the tips. You're going to be sanding down the whole thing anyways, so why not do a great job on the whole? Who/how will you be doing the paint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 In the trash , Why does this not happen to me? Very good find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockhorst Posted May 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 (edited) Big post... The work plan (in no particular order): -Refin the neck, making it all smooth again -Find a way to get the headstock pointy again, preferably preserving the Jackson logo -Fitting Sperzel locking tuners for fast restringing -Close the pickup selector switch hole -Maybe install push/pull switch volume control (splitting PU coil) -Close up the neck pick up route -Find a new jack plate (not included) -Fit a proper trem bridge on there (the jackson licensed sorta fell apart) -Install a proper pick up in the bridge position (thinking DiMarzio Evo's, or maybe something like an Air Norton). -Shape the upper wing tip into something fashionable Bag o' parts: Sanding: Sanding the back, done: You can see that we went a little overboard with the sanding on a certain part of the back (notice discoloration). We decided to toss hand sanding and got a power sander out. For the rest of the body we decided to start with the power sander and finish up by hand, which gives a lot more control . It's almost blank now (pics soon). The body seems to be made up out of 4 pieces of wood sandwiched between 2 top/bottom veneerlike pieces. Was surprised that they constructed it that way (i.e. I don't see how that made production easier). Some of the bevels became a tad smoothed due to the sanding. I'm open to suggestions for getting them sharpened up again (or can this be fixed with proper finishing?). Also open to other suggestions of course. A few points of interest: -Shaping those wing tips (will post some more detailed pics soon). -We were thinking of finishing it the folowing way: black base coats, huge sticker/decal with graphic, finish with a couple of clear coats hopefully hiding sticker seems (any experience with this?). -Pickup suggestions (suited for playing metal but also some nice abilities). -Tremolo suggestions: I'm not quite sure that a real Floyd bridge would retrofit these routes: it seems that the Jackson licensed has different measurements, comparing the measurements from the Floyd site. I had another thought: maybe I could install a Wilkinson trem. Haven't checked those measurements yet (and the website isn't very informative on installation notes). Would a 2 pivot knife edged Wilkinson trem require the pivot point bushings to be installed flush to the body (slightly recessed now. My guess is that's not much of a problem). If anybody has helpful suggestions, please post. If you need more info or some detailed pictures feel free to request. Edited May 6, 2009 by Rockhorst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 On sharpening up the bevels: Use a long flat block for the outer bevels, and a short flat block for the curved bevels. And make sure you're going STRAIGHT across when you sand the sides and top/back, and not rounding over the edge of the bevel. When I made my V I actually used a half-round file with the handle chopped off. Wrapped some sandpaper around it and went lengthwise for the straight edges, flipped it perpendicular to the bevel for the curved ones. Worked like a breeze. Use pencil marks as a guide for where you want the bevel to end up. Helps a ton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockhorst Posted May 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 (edited) Thanks for the reminder on the pencil. Will do! I don't really understand your half round file setup though. Edited May 6, 2009 by Rockhorst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 You'll have to do some research on which Jackson Licensed Flloyd that model came with. Some of them are direct implants with an OFR. Some of them have higher end Licensed models you can switch with that many feel are just as good as the OFR. If you haven't done so already, check out the Jackson/Charvel Forum. Loads of info on there. I wouldn't get insane with the headstock. From the factory, they are slightly rounded tips, otherwise they would snap off even faster. That one is not too bad compared to some i have seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Reeves Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 I obviously don't have any experience in the matter, but if he were to dowel blocks into the tips that needed re-shaped wouldn't that give enough strength? I understand that just glueing to the end grain would be as weak of a joint as you can get, but since it's going to be under paint I don't see why doweling wouldn't give the extra strength needed to make it shapeable, and last. Of course it would be tough to get the drilling perfectly square, but if a person wanted... -Dean II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakhahn Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 At this point why don't you put whatever trem you want in it. Shouldn't be to hard to plug the old trem post holes and redrill new ones since you are refinishing it anyway. By the way, both my Jacksons trems have the same measurements as a Floyd Rose. I think they are actually made by Schaller under Floyd Rose licensing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockhorst Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 (edited) You make a good point Dakhahn. We actually are hardtail fans that always get stuck with tremolo guitars (you know the feeling?). But we're not going to do a trem-to-hardtail conversion, so a true original Floyd Rose seems like a good option, but also quite expensive. Anybody here have experience with the Wilkinson WVS5011K or a VS100? I've always been very curious about them and I think it would look good on this guitar, bearing in mind that we could cover up part of the floyd route to have a larger area for the graphic. If we we're to go with a Floyd style bridge, what would be the best option: Gotoh, Schaller or Original FR? Gotoh is a lot cheaper, but that probably comes with some reduced quality? I'd be interested in any comments on bridges! EDIT: I checked the Jackson licensed. It seems to be a Takeuchi manufactured TRS-101. It has some parts missing, but I'm pretty sure I could find those. Is it any good of would you recommend a replacement? Edited May 8, 2009 by Rockhorst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 The ts101 is a crap trem...avoid it like the plague. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockhorst Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 The ts101 is a crap trem...avoid it like the plague. Thanks for that, so what about the alternatives? What would you recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Floyd original or a schaller...but you may have to modify the top rout...the back routs are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 I haven't used one yet, and they haven't been out long enough to get a long term opinion on them, but I have seen the Gotoh's getting good reviews. Wes, help me out here, I can't remember if it is the JT570 or the JT580 that is supposed to be a very good licensed trem from Jackson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 None of the liscensed trems from Jackson are as good as a floyd or schaller...unless something new has happened I don't know about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakhahn Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 (edited) I just looked up one of my Jackson's and it has the JT 580 trem on it. I have had this guitar for a little over a year and have never had any issues with the trem. My other Jackson is from the late 80's or early 90's and it has the Jackson trem and is stamped made in Germany by Schaller. The Schaller made trem does have a better feel to it though. I wonder when Jackson made the change?????? Edited May 8, 2009 by Dakhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockhorst Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 @Westhemann (&others): anybody got a diagram with specs of those TRS-101 trems so I can compare them to Schaller and original measurements? (Since it says on the warmoth site that the two are not interchangable, I wanna be sure before I place an order). Anybody got experience with retrofitting these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockhorst Posted May 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 (edited) I've posted something on the Jackson Charvel forum on the bridges and RR4 in general. Meanwhile, some progress and more detailed pics of certain parts: The neck, sanding in progress: Headstock detail: Note that there's an actual piece of the sharp edge missing on the front. This is why I remarked earlier that I was thinking of ways to make the headstock pointy again: any suggestions? Close up of the wing tip, roughly sanded to remove splinters: Body fully sanded: The 'customer': The neck fit is still extremely tight, one of the tightest I've ever seen. EDIT: Thanks to the Jackson Charvel Forum the bridge has been identified as a JT 580 bridge. Doing further research on that now. Is it (supposedly) as horrid as the TRS 101? Edited May 8, 2009 by Rockhorst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Not nearly as bad as the TRS101. Like Wes said none of the Licensed trems from Jackson are as good as an OFR, but the Schaller made trems from the 80's are still very good. I wouldn't put the JT570 or JT580 up against an OFR, but if the budget is tight, I would stay with that bridge and consider it as a future replacement item. I think the JT570 is the Low Profile version, or I have them backwards, but one is a Low Pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakhahn Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) The simplest thing I can think of for your headstock is to just take an 1/8th or a 1/16th of an inch off the end of it. Might seem kind of drastic to some people but shouldn't really be noticeable unless compared to another headstock side by side. It would give you 2 nice new corners at the top and bottom of the headstock. Edited May 9, 2009 by Dakhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockhorst Posted May 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 @Dakhahn: funny, I worked on the neck today (removing grime and fine sanding the back) and was thinking of either doing what you descibe or rounding it off. Doing some research I noticed that even the exact headstock shape among Jackson RRs varies, depending on the model. So I think I'll be going that route. I found a place that produces Jackson decals, so the headstock is going to be sanded entirely and finished (hopefully) to perfection. On trems: I went to a parts store today and test fitted a Gotoh and a Schaller. The Gotoh was a perfect fit and hardened steel, so I'll probably go with that one. Any suggesting on the shaping of that upper fin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Well, since the RR4 is not exactly a collectable model you have the freedom to do as you please. You can either sand away a little from the straight sections of the wings and from the inside curve to remove enough material. Or you can cut a secondary angle on the tips. I don't really have any illustrations, but I personally I would go with the secondary angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ae3 Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 I've heard good things about the gotoh floyed, and it's cheaper than the original and the schaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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