MikeB Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 For a vocal mic the MXL condensors are cool btw. I used it for some of my solos as well. yeh, i just got a large diaphragm MXL condensor, and it sounds good, im itching to record with it now! tip on vox, use a pop shield, these are great devices that get rid of a lot of sibilance and popping in the words! cya laters mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Derek, try using less distortion for recording.. that's a trick that works pretty damn good. It takes years of experience to get the sound you hear eactly on tape... there's so many factors that alter the sound. Just try to move the mic. There's lots of info on the webon mic placement. You can get excellent results with a 57, but it takes quite some time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 One thing that used to bother me was getting a great drum sound. I then learned that I was trying to tweek frequencies in a drastic manner to come close to the sound I was looking for, and you ended up with alot of bad overtones. Then you realize that whatever the drums sound like is what you'll end up with in most cases. So basically, I found I that to get great studio sound with good mics, I also had to have a great sounding drumset to start with. It's alot easier to get record something that already has the sound your looking for. It not only saves you time, but sounds better and more natural to the ears than shreding your track by boosting and cutting frequencies. Look... If your amp or distortion sound isn't that good to start with, don't try to record it, or move the mic around in hopes of having a great sound. It's more than likely not going to sound good. It is what it is. So if your not getting the sound you like, I'd really recommend you looking into something like a Line 6 POD, or one of the new Digitech pedals which will give you great sound without having to mic also. If that's not your cup of tea, try recording clean and get the Amplitube plugin, they sound good and leave you the option of changing your tone during mixdown. Of course if you had Pro Tools.. you could get the Line 6 Amp Farm which is what alot of artist use today, but then again, to get a great TDM Pro Tools setup you better be ready to run a business or just have alot of money setting around.. lol Oh yeah and one little tip from me.. If you don't have the money to buy a great sounding drum kit, or just want to replace certain parts of the drum in the mix. I would really recommend you checking out Drumagog. This plug in is amazing and with some great drum samples you won't believe the sound you'll get out of this. Just make sure you mic the whole drum kit if you go this route and want to have that option later.. Check it out.. remember you heard it here first.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syxxstring Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 I tried all sorts of direct methods. Hated all the results. I ended up ditching my Flextone and Pod in the process. There's something in the sound of actual speakers. I ended up with a Mesa Studio 22 and killer pedal board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 you guys are right... i think it is my amp, it's a solid state, although one of the better ones to my ears, i think i might take the dive and get a marshall tube, cause i'm starting to get to the point where i can hear that little bit of backround fuzzziness that only solide states make... tube's are supposed to be alot thicker sounding too (right?), which is my main problem.. i have to much fuzz but not enough thickness in the sound, (hence the distortion level dilema) my friend lent me his sure10A which he's selling for 40$ i like it a bit more then the 57(140$), it's a bit brighter and louder, i duno, i'll probably end up not buying anything the fact that i don't have a seperate room to mic my amp in is also adding time, cause i have to record, playback, move the mic, repeat,... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy McFeely Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 hey derek, i mic in two places at once. i mic right at the speaker, and i put another a few feet away, (i guess a meter or so for you metric users ) that way i get the sound of the speaker, plus the ambience of the room, and the articulation of the amp. you have to F with it allitle, but i get a good, (IMO) sound this way. give it a try. also try the sm-58, i know it's a vocal mic, but you may like the sound better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Podgorny Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 The mic means next to squat when it comes the the overall sound. In order of importance... Playing Technique Guitar and Amp Room THEN Microphone If your tone is not what you want in the room, it sure as heck isn't going to be what you want when you put up a mic. IMHO, solid state amps and ANY digital modeling can lick my crease. Tube is where it's at, hands down. ... If you want to get into home recording, I highly recommend the M-Audio stuff. Despite what someone said, they have GREAT driver support, and don't sound half bad either. That and a copy of Sonor or Samplitude will get you far. For mics, I must recommend that you not waste your money on an MXL. They're not a good investment. My cousin has a couple of MXL V67s that he loves... But he can lick my crease too. I suggest getting the Sennheiser E609 Silver. Great for guitars, and you most likely won't regret buying it later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 but if your after accurate sound reproduction, solid state is by far superior. and also remember that electret condensor microphones are superior to dynamics. they are slagged because they sound too "clear". the valves add tonal colouration, and the dynamics cannot respond as well as electrets because they have a greater diaphragm mass, therefore they have a worse response. so angus do you use a totally digital modelling free setup? and why do you hate digital modelling and SS amps? ill agree that the room your in contributes to alot of the sound features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Podgorny Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 but if your after accurate sound reproduction, solid state is by far superior. and also remember that electret condensor microphones are superior to dynamics. they are slagged because they sound too "clear". the valves add tonal colouration, and the dynamics cannot respond as well as electrets because they have a greater diaphragm mass, therefore they have a worse response. so angus do you use a totally digital modelling free setup? and why do you hate digital modelling and SS amps? ill agree that the room your in contributes to alot of the sound features. MikeB, don't buy into all the hype. A properly designed tube amplifier will give a truer representation of a sound than solid state. This is the reason why audio enthusiasts are willing to spend top dollar on monoblock tube amps. And I would prefer a well-designed dynamic microphones, such as a 421 or RE20 over an electret condenser almost any day. Do I use a completely modeling-free setup? No. I use Amplitube for songwriting/demos, and the occasional bass track. It's useful as a quick fix, but that's about all. Why do I dislike digital modeling? •Tracks recorded with digital modeling (especially direct) are hard to sit in a mix •There is latency with channel selection using a floor board (the expression pedal is a joke) •The Line 6 stuff is not road-worthy at all. The Pedal board falls apart, and if your power is unreliable, your amp may start switching channels randomly •And most importantly, digital modeling sounds like my butt after Taco Bell. If you do a "blind taste test" with a Line6 amp versus an AC30 or a Dual Rectumfire going to tape, I can pretty well guarantee you'd pick the real thing. And I'm not even talking about boutique tube amps here. I don't want this to turn into a tube vs. solid state argument. There have been tons of articles written about that already. All I'm saying is, don't buy something for 'in the mean time', its wasted cash. Get something that will hold its value or even appreciate in value. I don't think digital modeling amps fall into that catagory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syxxstring Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Just to be clear, my issue with M-Audio was entirely with the USB products, specifically the quattro. Worked fine on one computer hours of fussing wouldnt work on another. Then the drivers wouldnt work on the first computer. Tried different windows versions etc... HOURS WAISTED My roland rpc cards( i bought a second studio pack after the project was done)[dont ask] are made by them for Roland. Mostly my advice is to avoid the USB thing. I'll stand by the MXL condensers(which are not all electrets, i have a large diagphram model) all day long for the money. I dont have piles of cash to drop on a mike closet. Also the very expensive shure 87a is an electret condensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wylde1919 Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 I disagree iwth your assesment of line 6 entirely! I was at a friends gig recently and he was playing through a lin 6 Vetta half stack. He was also demoing TERRY FREAKIN MCINTURFF's old Marshal with the mod (the one zakk wylde had done) and let me tell you the line 6 kicked the marshalls teeth in. but thats just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 MikeB, don't buy into all the hype. A properly designed tube amplifier will give a truer representation of a sound than solid state. This is the reason why audio enthusiasts are willing to spend top dollar on monoblock tube amps. i dont want to turn this into a SS vs. Tube amp, but this is totally wrong, and i want others to know the facts before slagging SS. Ill assume that by truer representation of sound ill assume you mean the audio signal. Facts. The vacuum tube produces a high percentage of 2nd order distortion, octave higher in musical terms. this can sound nice and full bodied, where a SS amp produces almost none! Producing any harmonic, and any type of distortion like this is bad for a truer audio representation. Vacuum tube amps do NOT produce a uniform programme power output. SS does. here are some specs then. (March 1996 Glass Audio Mag) Amp rated at 95 watts per channel. $1100 @ 1Khz Total harmonic distortion is 0.63% (0.3% is the human ear threshold for detecting this) @ 20hz the amp's output DROPS to 40W with 3% Total Harmonic Distortion. @10Khz there was a THD of 2.65% @20Khz 5.6% THD at total output of 66W In the High Power Audio Amplifier Manual by Randy Sloane he quotes these figures and says that: "This does not represent some sort of worst case scenario." "By modern objective sonic accuracy standards, this is a VERY POOR amplifier" The tube amp has a HUGE hype surrounding it, because i believe people like the bad speaker damping it offers, the 2nd order distortion, and the pseudo compression effects across the frequency spectrum where audio output drops as it nears the extremes of frequency. I know that the tube sound is nice, but in terms of a "truer audio representation" they SUCK!!! The tube sound can be achieved at a preamp stage, which is where all signal manipulation should be done, not at a power amp stage like tubes. SS has a bad reputation because in the first few years of its existancee they were made poorly, and also the poorly made dirt cheap SS amps are made poorly. Any moderate SS amp will totally FLOOR ANY tube amp in terms of "truer audio representation". I dont want new ppl to recording thinking that tube is the only was to get good results. Allow me to show figures for a homemede SS amp with a 210W output. Total harmonic distortion is 0.0038% (100X less than human ear can hear) Tube amp produced 0.63%. THD @ 20Khz is 0.01% (30x less than the ear can percive) with the tube amp producing 5.6%!!!!! Which amp is better for sound reproduction? Line recordings do sound off, and it takes alot of tweaking to get good results, but thats because of the coluration the speaker, amp, room and amp etc... adds to the signal. I compared my Sennheiser (dynamic) vocal mic to my MXL vocal mic (electret), and the MXL is 1000's times better!!! I dare you to get a tube amp that can out perform the mentioned SS amp above. Another words not a heap of a SS amp, a moderate one. SS amps have also been marred by the old transistor amps that were made badly, which transcended into huge amounts of 3rd (horrible!!) order distortion. My point is that saying tube is the only way to go is balls. Get a tube preamp if you want the sound, they will give the 2nd order distortion that gives the warm sound. phew!! almost a rant!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 i'm going to get some supper and come read those couple of long replies, i'd just like to let everyone know i finaly found "my tone" on my amp... using a junky old condenser mic i've had for ages... i think i also found my amp's sweet spot!!!!! bottom right speaker i've got the mic position taped i'll probably hate the sound of it in a couple days, but at least i'm getting close i'll post a clip som time if anyone wants to hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 i wanna hear!! always interested! i found the sweet spot in mine also near the center using a large diaphragm mic. about 1/2 way out on the speaker, and about 10" back. also finally settled on a distortion effect i actually like. there is 2 now!!! my Vai setting, and one i did. found it by accident, was recording line with the pedal tryin to make it sound nice, and i tried it on my amp and its great!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 k here's the file in 2 sizes Mic test - vai sound 1.33mb Mic test - vai sound 341kb it's sound pretty good compressed too, which is excellent for posting on places like guitarwar.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 pretty clear recording sound there, didnt notice any naff room sounds creeping in! sounds good man! condensor mics really do a good job! i might record something sometime and post it... when its daytime perhaps, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryeisnotcool2 Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 umim not a huge recording geek, im a guitar player who is very **** about his tone, and i agree with angus 100 pecent! ss amps are good for beginner guitarists and people who dont like to have good tone, tube amps be it fender,marshall, MESA !!!!!,or any of the really nice bogners or orange amps will blow away a ss any time of day or night! and dont even get me started on line 6! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy McFeely Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 opinions are like @$$holes... i have had a dual recto for 5 years, i recently let it go for a 5150 combo. i got a v-amp pro for christmas, and i can recreate the recto sound almost exactly on tape, or digital anyway. the recto sounds nice, but i had to have it at freakin 12 to get the good recto sound, that sucks. as far as SS being for beginners, that's out of line. i have both, but i played a peavey XXL that sounded awesome, and it was SS. my 5150 sounds great, and it's all tube, but it has to be cranked to get that fat tone. with tube amps you have to have em cranked, or they're muddy as mississippi. look if modeling isn't good to your ear, maybe you don't know how to tweak it correctly. i messed with my v-amp for about 20 minutes and i copped the dual recto almost perfectly. it's all opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 thanks speedy! valve is hype, and is trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryeisnotcool2 Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 well i dont have to crank it up to 12 or 10, and my tone is deffinetly not muddy, but im not going to argue about this, i really dont care! i like my tones and you cant have them!!!! well accually you could if you get the same amp and rig that i use!lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy McFeely Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 my opinion is just that tone is a percentage. 40% fingers 5% attitude 5% gear 50% soul +/- 2% for alcohol induced soul. so in essence SS or tube is just for the players to argue over. peace bruddas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 psh attitude lmao! thats like punk rock shiz! i say its more like 30% skillz 10% gear 60% soul man. i love that word you used. i couldnt agree with you more. Personlly i can dig the tube! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 You guys who are bashing Line 6 would really be suprised to find out how many records use the Amp Farm plug-in with Pro Tools. Just because they endorse something to make money, doesn't mean they are playing them on their records or live. My friend used to bash Line 6 alot until he went to see his favorite band who played Mesa Boogie amps, and got to talk to the tech and noticed in the rack was a Line 6 POD pro. He said, they didn't even have the amps plugged in.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryeisnotcool2 Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 well i do believe you, but that is just sad! getting a good sound from a rig is also part of being a good guitarist, i think the line 6 stuff is just cheating and the lazy mans way of going about it! plus i can hear a difference, my freinds band let me listen to there new album and i could tell right away that it was recorded with a line 6, and this thing was recorded with the big wigs in nashville. i do think that stuff is good for making wierd sounds though, but not for a good over drive tone or clean tone, more overdrive though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 getting a good sound from a rig is also part of being a good guitarist, i think the line 6 stuff is just cheating and the lazy mans way of going about it! That's like saying that using only hand tools is part of being a good luthier and that using power tools is the lazy man's way of building a guitar. I personally prefer not to use modelling so I can develop my own sound, but I see nothing wrong with people who prefer not to preoccupy themselves with developing a tone and just prefer concentrating on playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.