Svento Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 I've been told that balsa wood has great tonal qualities, but being so light weight and soft it's a bit unpractil for instrument buildning. What kind of reinforcements would be necessary to make a solid body from balsa? For the first I guess that string tension would bend the body, so I guess the body must be reinforced for that reason. Next problem is neck joint, I guess that part should cause some problems too... With a bolt-on neck, maybe one wooden plugg for each bolt should be enough, so that the neck pocket isn't compressed when drawing the bolts? Then there should be some problems with screws for bridge, scratch plate and output jack. If the body has a top and a bottom made from something harder, that wouldn't be a problem, otherwise one could set a wooden plugg in the balsa body for each screw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightninMike Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Balsa is good as an acoustic isolator.... if you want to make a lightweight body, try this http://www.worldpaulownia.com/html/tech.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svento Posted September 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Balsa is good as an acoustic isolator.... if you want to make a lightweight body, try this http://www.worldpaulownia.com/html/tech.html Still, I've heard people say it has a good taptone, and that's my impression too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 ineck dive from hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 simple, watch this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Y'know, I've heard some people are filling the insides of their guitar with air these days... I have some thoughts on this, though it's admittedly no more than theory. A good acoustic guitar is built on the principle that it should have no more structural stability than absolutely necessary. Production guitars tend to be overbuilt, so people that don't know better are less likely to break them (read: cheaper warranty expenditures). Luthiers tend to get rid of as much wood as they can while still maintaining structural stability. Electric guitars are built on a slightly different principle. The solid body was conceived (as I recall) to eliminate feedback, which had been a problem with electrified acoustics. In terms of structural stability, they are generally WAY overbuilt, because they have different goals. As solid bodies incorporate denser materials, such as aluminum, granite, and the like, people have reported greater sustain. The way I understand it, sustain is achieved by tighter resonant frequencies that hold out longer, and seems to be encouraged by denser materials. So to say a softer material is more resonant than a dense material can be misleading, as the resonance may just work differently. It's like relaxing string tension, isn't it? I may be totally off-base with all this. I haven't tested it, and maybe some more experienced builders can chime in. Regarding Balsa wood, I'm all for trying something new. That's much of the point of building your own guitar. But while softer woods may gain you something in some areas, there's probably an opportunity cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-beam Look at the "Design for bending" section and apply that to a balsa core guitar with more traditional top and back (substitute I-beam web with balsa core) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svento Posted September 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-beam Look at the "Design for bending" section and apply that to a balsa core guitar with more traditional top and back (substitute I-beam web with balsa core) Å fyfan, det var tung läsning... The text was on a level a bit too high for me and I didn't understand much of it. But I'll keep reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 He, he, före detta ingenjör underlättar ju... The content in short: This is how the stress is distributed internally in a square beam (look at the first example in green): The rotating forse (name in English?) that is aplied on the body by the strings and the lever of the nut and bridge is Mfz. The foce is distributed inside the body like σxx, with the most internal stress distributed to the outer "layer" of the beam and the center will not counter much at all of the aplied stress. So a balsa core guitar with say 1/8" maple caps will probably not be much weaker than a 100% maple body. This is however restricted to the structural strength side. I don't know how much of this that can be applied to the sound... Just try it and let us know how it sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svento Posted September 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Probably the big thing won't be strengthening the body but making something for the neck pocket. Maybe a pice of wood should be placed there where the neck can rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Cut out a piece of harder wood that is slightly bigger than the neck pocket and fit it into the balsa block. When sandwiching the balsa block between harder wood it will be secured good enough... I think. The same procedure can be used for the bridge area if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svento Posted September 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Is there any composite material with a perfectly neutral tone? Something that doesn't add anything to the sound, not dampening, absorbing nor resonating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Distilled water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svento Posted September 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Distilled water? A bit on the heavy side but probably a good idea. It must be kept at a rather low temperature though, otherwise, it's not hard, strong and stable enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 It must be kept at a rather low temperature though, otherwise, it's not hard, strong and stable enough. I would say you could counter that by pressurizing it to 32 PSI...a proven pressure of almost magical tonal abilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 how about a solid diamond guitar that should do it. so first thing is to find a diamond big enough to build a guitar out of (check ebay) next cut it to shape. bam complete tonal transfer that easy. this may only make sence in my head. but here goes i see a tele with a 1/4" top and back. now for the balsa core after you get your blank ready cut a 2" wide groove about 3/4" deap then glue in a piece of hard wood in to it. that will end up being what your neck bolts too. glue the top and bottom cut it out and rout it. then you should be able to bolt the neck to hard wood also the string through furels will be in hard wood. plus you will have a piece of hard wood on the bottom to screw the strap button on. (i guess a hard wood plug for the other strap button. does that make any sence to any oneelse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 ...then you should be able to bolt the neck to hard wood also the string through furels will be in hard wood. Apparently, Tim never watched the Yamaha video Wez posted. They're not ferrules anymore. They're "sound tubes." (Pat. Pending) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 actualy i did but i think i would put a spine down the back for the neck to bolt too that woudl be my main diffence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 They're not ferrules anymore. They're "sound tubes." (Pat. Pending) yeah, the sound tubes. basically they are the bolts that hold the bridge on... the tubes from the bridge only go halfway into the guitar. this is a neat solution to the problem of mounting a bridge on balsa wood, no screws to strip out! as for the neck - i thing an oversized plug in each hole is the way i would go. the yamaha's also have quite a thick layer of bomb proof paint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svento Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Is there any composite material with a perfectly neutral tone that could be used for reinforcement? Something that won't dampen nor absorb the vibration energy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Nope nothing is gonna be perfectly nuetral but the harder the better if that's what your after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svento Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Nope nothing is gonna be perfectly nuetral but the harder the better if that's what your after. Any suggestons then? I actually didn't imagine there would be anything perfectly neutral, but I want something that doesn't kill tone completly. I guess something with long fibers would be best if any such composite material is available to normal citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Honestly, as much as we all fuss about wood, it's not nearly as important as electronics. Rather than chasing neutral build materials, be on the lookout for the right pickups, amp, and EQ setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Honestly, as much as we all fuss about wood, it's not nearly as important as electronics. Rather than chasing neutral build materials, be on the lookout for the right pickups, amp, and EQ setting. ah contrare, my fellow Texan. Wood is everything. I mean the difference between pecan vs, mesquite, the flavor is night and day. Now oak vs hickory is a mild change. While cherry has it's places as well. Oh My I'm talking BBQ, wrong thread :D MK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svento Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Honestly, as much as we all fuss about wood, it's not nearly as important as electronics. Rather than chasing neutral build materials, be on the lookout for the right pickups, amp, and EQ setting. That will be the next issue. I don't believe I'll make anything worse picking the right materials for the body. Any suggestions about composite materials with a fairly neautral tone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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