westhemann Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 anyone know what angle to make the headstock for a locking nut so i wouldn't have to use a string tree?13 deg.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbkim Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Hmm... I don't have a protractor handy but here are some numbers. On my Kramer, for a 6" run, I have a 1.75" rise. On my Carvin, 6" run, 1.25" rise. Damn! My calculator's battery is dead. Give me a minute to Soh-Cah-Toa it . Edit: Kramer: tan(o) = 1.75"/6" --> 16.26 degrees Carvin: tan(o) = 1.25"/6" --> 11.77 degrees 13 degrees should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 yeah i was actually justy about to ask that question wes thankS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Actually its not that simple. The peghead angle alone does not define if you need string trees or not. It also depends on the placement of the tuners. The farther away a tuning machine is from the nut, the bigger an angle you need. Simply draw a sideview of your peghead and the tuning machines and figure out how big an angle you need to make string tress obsolete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 that does make sense geometrically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 that does make sense geometrically but? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 if the nut is 13 degrees,and the peghead is 13 degrees,then the distance traveled does not affect the angle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 okay....if you use a nut with an angle then you're right. In this case it should be best to angle the peghead with the locking nut angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 yeah,that is what i want to know...if the locking nut is in fact 13 degrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 I seem to remember it being 13 deg. I think that's why Warmoth makes 13" neck blanks but I'm not sure. I'm sure you are aware of this, but I wanted to throw out the winding issue on the tuners as a reminder. I don't remember if they wind up or down (I think up, right) which would screw things up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 yeah,that is what i want to know...if the locking nut is in fact 13 degrees Dont take my statement for the best solution. I just figured out that it *should* be the correct way of doing it in a geometrical sense. If it is the best solution in reality I cannot confirm. I dont understand what string trees are for anyway. I dont use them on my Strat, because they create tuning problems with the Tremolo. I wonder why Fender installs them if the guitar works quite as well or even better if you dont use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 string trees are meant to correct the angle of the strings coming from the locking nut to the peghead.they make all locking nuts with a slope towards the tuners and when you lock them if the angle is not correct it pushes the strings down,changing the tuning,if you adjust the trees to hold the strings at the correct angle,this won't happen...but if you have the peghead at the same angle as the nut,then you don't need the tree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 ibanez have 13 degree pegheads and still use the string tree's don't they? you might want to look into tuners that have height adjustable shafts. I think Gotoh makes them, not sure if anyone else does. that might be wahat you're looking for, cause the claim that with those tuners you don't need string tree's on strat's.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 @wes: Okay that is a reason for using string trees on Floyd guitars. But what are the trees good for on a guitar with a usual nut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 ever seen a fender? the string trees increase the downward pressure that the string exerts on the nut slot, and helps transfer tone a bit better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbkim Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 @wes: Okay that is a reason for using string trees on Floyd guitars. But what are the trees good for on a guitar with a usual nut? They'd pop out of the nut. It happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 if the guitar has a slightly angled peghead and a regular nut that is all you need i think...with a straight peghead you may get a slight buzz in the nut...but if it doesn't buzz,why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 but if you have the peghead at the same angle as the nut,then you don't need the tree Right, with the exception of the effect of the windings on the tuners which is (I think) the reason why the retainers are still used on the angle back pegheads. I suppose you could do more of an angle to be sure that the windings don't come into play but I don't know how much of an angle that would be. A drawing would do the trick. Don't want them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 locking tuners don't need windings...that's what i use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FajiiNako Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Ibanez guitars with floyd style bridges have the 13 degree angled neck, and don't require string trees. I've been wondering what the bar right behind the nut is for for a while now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 My main guitar is my beloved old Fender USA Strat. If I want to use the tremolo I dont use the string trees and I never had a problem that way. No popping of strings out of the nut and no buzzing. @Wes: If you use a locking nut why do you install locking tuners? They are more expensive and not neccessary if you have a locking nut anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbkim Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Consider yourself lucky that they don't pop out . I had a couple of strats in the mid 80's. The first string would pop out all the time without the string tree. As for the locking tuners with a locking nut, some people like to cut the string with no slack, i.e., no extra windings around the tuning peg, when stringing their guitars. It offers a cleaner look for one thing. The string might slip out if this is done with non-locking tuners. This is one reason. I can't speak for westhemann's reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 yeah ,like he said....plus i am lazy and i have alot of guitars..it saves alot of time changing strings...... they aren't any more expensive than the schaller minis i usually buy either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlexVDL Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Ibanez guitars with floyd style bridges have the 13 degree angled neck, and don't require string trees. I've been wondering what the bar right behind the nut is for for a while now though. I've posted it before.... without the bar the strings will float a bit above the nut, so when you press the clamps down the strings will raise in pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlexVDL Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 anyone know what angle to make the headstock for a locking nut so i wouldn't have to use a string tree?13 deg.? it depends on how big the radius of the top surface of your locking nut is... look at the pic above. The string should follow the curve, otherwise the strings will get out of tune when clamping the nut down. Just draw your nut on a piece of paper and see what angle your headstock requires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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