Our Souls inc. Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 O.k. . My friend John Lewis hands me this guitar at band practice last weekend. A real-deal mid-80's ESP M-1 custom! Asks me if I can 'fix' it. FIX it. "Sure" was my overly confident reply...... It needed a cleaning and a setup. From what I could see. The battery was still good in it so the EMG sounded nice when I fired it up- but MAN was the intonation shot! I unplugged it and went about the grime removal it needed in spots but when I looked at the bridge real good, the saddles were as far forward as they'd go. :/ So, I took out the tape measure and found the scale length to be off by 1/4" ( like 8mm, i swear ) It's a neck thru, with a non-recessed Floyd and 1 humbucker. Are my only two options removing the FB and re-setting it OR move the bridge posts and pup further forward? Any other way around this mess? I'll do up pics pronto, but I'm looking for opinions/theories ASAP. Right now I have from nut to 12th fret -12 and 3/4" ___ from 12th fret to high E saddle 13" . THIRTEEN. No adjusting it anymore, and it's a neck-thru. Any ideers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Are you talking a Japanese custom?Because if it is a Japan custom shop there is zero chance they would screw up the intonation...zero... So you have only two choices...either you are measuring something wrong or the original bridge has been replaced with one that has different saddle locations by some dumbass. Pics would help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted December 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I'm loading pics now. In the meantime, all I have for clues is this : the bridge *looks normal and non-replaced. It's a typical FR licensed but the bridge studs adjust by a philips head slot on top -is that standard ESP or aftermarket? It does have a brass block underneath. Again, Stock or aftermarket?? I don't know ESP that well. I have 3 other bridges here that fit just by dropping them in, but the intonation is the same on them all. Out by 1/4". I have a speedloader bridge that will adjust to within 1/8"- but that's with the saddle hanging over the front a bit. As for the measuring, it's been my livelyhood for over two decades now. I triple checked from both ways in disbelief, trust me. John's the second owner of this guitar, and he's had it 20+ years now. I can't see why the guy before him would've put a correct radius bridge that was out that far. Or why John played it this way for so long! Truly frazzled by it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted December 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 The above pics show the tape sitting with the High E at 1" -the 12th fret at 14", and the nut at 26 and 3/4" . That gives us 12 and 3/4" from nut to 12th and 13" from 12th to saddle, with an overall of 25 and3/4" not 25.5" . Moar pics Moved the tape aside to show the headstock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 You need a better measuring stick. But let's just deal with what you have. First off,you have the 1" mark sitting at the wrong point by at least 1/16" and your tape is beat up beyond belief to be measuring such a thing.You need to measure from the nut end anyway. But trying to be helpful,I don't see a cavity for the floyd,so I am not convinced that is the original bridge. The pics need to be better.And I still can't tell if it's a true ESP custom shop or not.In those pictures the nut looks crooked,but that could be just the angle of the pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 You added new pics while I was typing I don't think that is the original bridge anyway.ESP never put such a cheap bridge on a custom shop that I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Let me show you some pics of my Edwards.If you don't know,that is a CNC cut body and neck made by ESP and assembled and set up in the ESP Custom Shop My pics aren't that great either,but it shows you where everything should be,and it shows you the ESP custom shop's work is good.I could eat out of the control cavity...not that I would ever put food there. Notice in my last pic that last hole for the the saddle screws are exactly centered on the bridge studs..your bridge is not.Also,that cheapo bridge you have there has saddle height adjustment...mine does not and I don't think there is even room for such a thing...so I think your saddles are longer than a true floyd. My belief is that some fool put a horribly cheap trem on there(and looks to have chipped out the rout to make it fit) and had no clue that it was different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Also,it's not that uncommon to have the high E saddle sit off the front of the trem a little bit..I don't do it,but I have seen guitars that needed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 28, 2012 Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 By the way,those guitars were also offered with Wilkinson trems...check and see if the locking nut looks like it was added later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted December 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 You keep batting around the words "Japan" and "custom shop" neither of which I ever uttered. I don't know what this is, aside from a 20+ year old ESP. The shelf for the nut was definitely done at the factory ,and the bridge studs show no sign of alteration. The fret ends are all polished up and rounded nicely, the binding is good, it shows the signs of a quality build, but the intonation is just atrocious. The brass block very well may be aftermarket, but all my FR bridges are giving me the same measurments- beat up tape or not, it measures the same every time. If you'd indulge me, what's the measurement from nut to posts? I've got 25 and 5/16" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted December 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 and FWIW, the tape is just sitting there slack in the photo's....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessejames Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 I also HIGHLY suspect that is not the original bridge. It has no up route, and looks like there was probably a wilkinson style that was on it that was erroneously replaced with a cheap floyd rose along the way and was poorly chiseled out to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 You keep batting around the words "Japan" and "custom shop" neither of which I ever uttered. okay A real-deal mid-80's ESP M-1 custom! "real deal" to ESP guys means not an LTD..which means Japan instead of Korea/China/Indonesia/Vietnam If you'd indulge me, what's the measurement from nut to posts? I've got 25 and 5/16" 25 1/16" The thing is,my guitar is modern(less than 5 years old) and that one you have is not..so I don't know if the post dimensions changed when they started using bushings instead of screws bushings screws I don't think they changed the bridge when they changed to bushings,but I am not certain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 ut all my FR bridges are giving me the same measurments Are they real Floyds or Licensed? You said your speedloader bridge was different,and my speedloader matches my real Floyds exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 According to my research this is the bridge it came with I know it is tough to tell from the pics,but that bridge seems to have the saddles further forward than a standard floyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 If it were me,I would order a set of these http://www.stewmac.c...se_Tremolo.html and place them 25 1/16" from the nut...because of the bushings being larger than the original screws,the new holes should completely cover the old holes.You will need a drill press to keep the bit from jumping over into the old holes. Those are great guitars so be respectful of that when you are doing the work.Of course if it were me I would put a real Floyd on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 I see from going through the other pics again it already has bushings..makes it tougher.I would just buy the right trem http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-ESP-Sinclair-Bridge-Silver-/271128230085?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3f208078c5 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-ESP-Sinclair-Bridge-/130819756388?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1e75771164 http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESP-Vintage-Sinclair-Tremolo-Bridge-Gold-MINT-M-1-M-II-M2-/140702915875?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20c28c1d23 It's easy to see in those auction pics that the saddle screw holes are much further forward compared to the bridge studs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Ha..in researching around the 'net it is not uncommon for dumbasses to throw a floyd in that type guitar...probably too tone deaf to notice the intonation issues afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted December 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) A real-deal mid-80's ESP M-1 custom! "real deal" to ESP guys means not an LTD..which means Japan instead of Korea/China/Indonesia/Vietnam If you'd indulge me, what's the measurement from nut to posts? I've got 25 and 5/16" 25 1/16" That was what I meant, It just shows how little about ESP i knew before today. I only knew it was older and ( not an LTD. ) still in the original case. You're info here has helped me a bunch! Edited December 29, 2012 by Our Souls inc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted December 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 O.k. -I sent him the link to the sale and he's getting a correct trem for this thing. Despite the paint being worn down by the trem-bar nut, the rout wasn't enlarged at all from the factory rout. I did however, notice some red and white paint in the layers. Another call to John revealed that it has been painted before. The black isn't factory at all, in fact it used to be pearlescent-y white, like a cadillac. But it turns out Wes was correct, it was either my measuring or : some jack-wagon replaced the stock trem with this Floyd copy. *facepalm I'll take 'jack-wagon' for a thousand, Chuck. So a replacement bridge is in order for now- he can have it back once it's fixed and jam on it at least. Come Summertime I'll take it and strip it. I'll try to leave the factory finish intact while removing the black, but that's a different thread. Thanks for the help, Wes. \m/ ( x.x ) \m/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 Not always the case when it comes to the trem model. I agree that there is zero chance of an 80s ESP leaving the workshop with bad intonation geometry. The instrument would have been repaired or more than likely restarted in that case. Glad to hear you got to the bottom of this and I hope that the sock cooker who hacked it up and replaced the trem is eaten by wolves in the cold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 Yeah they started using proper Floyds shortly after those ESP Sinclair things...before looking into it I was unaware,because I only started loving ESP Japan when they made the first Kirk Hammett model,and they were already using Floyd by then....I think that was like '88 or '89 IIRC It was shortly after that when they came out with the LTD line and started diluting the quality of the brand...but the Japanese guitars are still top knotch Anyway.glad the mystery is solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 By the way,i don't know if those auctions include the bar itself...the bar is notoriously hard to find by itself,but luckily Budman has an adapter that makes a common bar fit http://www.fretsonthenet.com/ESP_Carvin_Peavey/esp.htm Look down at the bottom of the page 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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