5 string bass build (it's gonna be HUGE in Japan!)

[Prostheta]

I couldn't resist such a bawdy joke.

[a2k]

On February 18, 2016 at 1:55 AM, Original said:

Great documentation in this thread. 

You've done very well for a beginner, and most of these lessons will reflect in all of your future projects. Nice work!

Thanks! I hope this thread will help other newbies see that 1) this is possible 2) their first project isn't going to be perfect but hopefully still nice, and 3) learn from my mis-steps they way I'm learning so much from everyone else that is sharing here. I gotta finish first, though...

[a2k]

On February 19, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Prostheta said:

I couldn't resist such a bawdy joke.

Once I realized it, I had to resist running with it lest I dig myself in an even deeper hole. 

[Prostheta]

14 hours ago, a2k said:

Thanks! I hope this thread will help other newbies see that 1) this is possible 2) their first project isn't going to be perfect but hopefully still nice, and 3) learn from my mis-steps they way I'm learning so much from everyone else that is sharing here. I gotta finish first, though...

 

It's always good to go into these things with high aims and an understanding that perfection off the bat is always difficult. Showing ones errors, thought processes and tribulations helps present builds in a more human and realistic light. I can understand how semi-professional or commercial builders will want to hide such things when they share their own work; that is what it is, and it would be somewhat silly to undermine one's own commercial interests.

I'm looking forward to when I have our own small studio workshop set up, because I have no horse in the race or issues to hide. I find it funny when people with really well-equipped workshops (beyond that of the average enthusiast) try to teach....it's just not realistic or relatable! It's great that you've illustrated your own journey down to the thought process behind the thought process....

Everybody's a newbie in some respect. The only difference between people is how they approach new subjects. Some people disregard what is shared and never take things onboard, or rather stay with their preconceived notions and simply want somebody else to feed into them rather than improve understanding. I have stories to tell about social media and the ridiculous pissing matches that go on over the most simplest of subjects....mostly because of a non-existent competition about "who is more right than the next person". In that respect, I'm not entirely sure what the race is, or what everybody's trying to win. Internet hamper? Free hat? Pat on the back from Stephen Hawking?

[a2k]

On February 22, 2016 at 11:56 PM, Prostheta said:

I'm not entirely sure what the race is, or what everybody's trying to win. Internet hamper? Free hat? Pat on the back from Stephen Hawking?

I'm not much for hats, but a pat on the back from Stephen Hawking is a different story.

[Prostheta]

Especially if he said, "boo!".

[a2k]

I am now paying the price for every time I finished a step with a rough edge or a little clean up needed and said "I'll take care of that when I sand." Am I alone in this bad habit? This is definitely something I plan on improving next time around. But for now, there are LOTS of little spots that need clean up.

It's frankly not photo-worthy, but just so you know what I'm talking about, it's things like this (where multiple passes with the template router bit left a ever-so-slight line & depth change between cuts):

Oh well... I'm happy to be learning.

The more interesting progress last week was gluing on the wings. I cleaned up the join area as best I could and glued them on one day at a time. Getting the wing to stay on straight is trickier than it sounds. Perhaps biscuits or pins would help next time. Here's the upper wing going on:

While that was drying, I took care of a few little things, like drilling the hole for the 1/4" output and holes for the cavity cover.

On Thursday I got back in and glued the bottom wing on. 

After literally watching glue dry for about 45 minutes, I decided to do a test cut with my pickup templates. Good thing, too for two reasons. The first is that my 1/2" diameter template bit is too big to fit in the corners. I ordered a 1/4" bit - hopefully the smooth shank will do the same thing as the bearing. Second, I learned an important lesson about putting plunge router into a small template area. I didn't make sure it was all the way in before touching the edge of the template so I ended up cutting a small bit of the template before the bearing was deep enough. Oops! Glad I was practicing and not cutting into the instrument (can I call it that yet?). Lesson learned.

And finally, I did some finish tests of the Watco Danish Oil I'd gotten my hands on via amazon.co.jp. So far, I'm liking the feel of Danish Oil a lot better than the wiping varnish I'd tried previously, which just felt plasticy and artificial to me. I'm trying two color options (light and super-ultra-light). We'll see how it looks after a few coats, but I'm leaning toward the darker option. I also have some Howard Feed-n-Wax ordered to see how that looks on the sample. The color difference is more significant than it looks in this picture:

That's the weekly progress report. Up next:

• Drill bridGe holes
• Clean up/blend together the heal
• Pickup cavities (if my 1/4" bit arrives)
• Sand, sand, and sand
• Test the urushi logo idea (I've been putting this off for fear of @Prostheta's warnings about allergic reactions, but we have a bunch of sunny 60+ degree days this week so I should be able to do this outside with gloves/mask/etc. on)

 

[Prostheta]

Some people use the shank of small diameter bits, but i don't trust them. Too much friction. I often just measure in from the corners and drill instead. Depends if you can be accurate to about a quarter of a mm. That usually does it. @curtisa makes templates for use with a guide bushing. I think there are better ways than relying on a shank not to burn up your wood. 

[curtisa]

I hadn't actually thought of using a 1/4" shank as a bearing, although like @Prostheta says friction burns may be an issue at cutting RPM.

Pickup templates are pretty easy to make - they're really only a bunch of rectangles and squares. If you don't have a bushing guide for your router or can't be bothered to make the oversized templates to suit them, drilling 1/4" holes in the corners and 'joining the dots' with a 1/2" template bit will get you 95% the way there. A tiny bit of clean-up work with a chisel where the 1/2" cuts meet the 1/4" drill holes would finish the job.

I have seen 1/4" template bits with bearings but I reckon they'd be pretty fragile. The smallest I have in my collection is 3/8".

[a2k]

2 hours ago, Prostheta said:

I think there are better ways than relying on a shank not to burn up your wood. 

 

43 minutes ago, curtisa said:

I hadn't actually thought of using a 1/4" shank as a bearing, although like @Prostheta says friction burns may be an issue at cutting RPM.

Hmmm... okay. My plan was to remove the bulk of the material with the 1/2" template bit and just just the 1/4" bit for cleaning out the corners, but I hear you all about friction. I suppose it's really no harder to use a 1/4" bit in the drill press to clear the corners first, and then then clean up the tiny ridge with a chisel. So that's the new plan. 

[Prostheta]

Just mark out the location with a pin; if you scribe two lines parallel to the edges of the rout in by the radius of the drill bit you've got a perfect locator. Check everything twice, allow the drill (lip and spur, brad point I hope?) to just touch the surface and "prove" the location and you're good to go. It's worthwhile plunging by "pecking" to allow waste to exit the cut. Less sanding inside tight corners from burning.

[ScottR]

Melvyn Hiscock Actually suggests using the shaft on a 1/4" as a bearing. I've done it in the early days. If you don't leave so much material that you can't cut quickly it's not so bad. You could also use you 1/2" bit to cut what it will and clean up the corners with the 1/4' bit. There really won't be all that much left to cut with that bit and you won't have to worry about lining up all those drilled holes.

SR

[a2k]

Time for my weekly progress report! I only got one afternoon in the shop last week due to a sick kid, but it was a good one day. The wings are glued on and looking very good. The joins are looking good.

I spent the afternoon mostly cleaning up and blending the heel area. It's tricky getting into the area now, so I resorted to using small carving tools. They are slow and leave lines that then have to be sanded out. I'd love to have some sort of rasp-ball-on-a-stick I could stick in there to get the curves. 

Here's an action shot:

And a shot of the entire back:

Next up I got the bridge holes drilled and tested. So far so good.

I'm also still playing around with some finish options. I tracked down some dark brown stain so I played with staining and sanding back. It brings out the figure in the maple but also brings out the grain. Interestingly, some of the grain ended up really darkening with the stain leaving almost black lines. I can't decide if these lines are good or not. Here's a shot showing the dyed piece on the left - both have Danish Oil on top (the left piece just has 1 coat compared to 4 on the plain piece). 

I've got the replaced pickup template ready to go, so today I plan on going in and routing out the pickup cavities. After that, I'll be sanding and sanding and sanding and sanding. Getting close! 

[Prostheta]

Slow and steady wins the game. Is that stain alcohol or water-based? Water-based will raise the grain so you'll need to do a bit of grain-raising prior to that to make your life easier. I'd also try testing it after being thinned down. Messing with the method of application and general schedules gets you a better feel for the wood and finishing product so you can tailor the final result how you want it. Currently it looks a little blotchy. This could be for any number of reasons.

The difference between dye and stain is subtle, however you can tell if it needs stirring prior to use. Stains are invariably a suspension as opposed to dye which is a solution. That might help you circumvent the language barrier you might be hitting when acquiring a product. If you find powdered dyes, that is a solution also. They can be mixed with alcohol, which is preferable to water since it raises the grain far less and has a lower surface tension, allowing it to penetrate the surface better.

[a2k]

18 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Slow and steady wins the game. Is that stain alcohol or water-based? Water-based will raise the grain so you'll need to do a bit of grain-raising prior to that to make your life easier. I'd also try testing it after being thinned down. Messing with the method of application and general schedules gets you a better feel for the wood and finishing product so you can tailor the final result how you want it. Currently it looks a little blotchy. This could be for any number of reasons.

The difference between dye and stain is subtle, however you can tell if it needs stirring prior to use. Stains are invariably a suspension as opposed to dye which is a solution. That might help you circumvent the language barrier you might be hitting when acquiring a product. If you find powdered dyes, that is a solution also. They can be mixed with alcohol, which is preferable to water since it raises the grain far less and has a lower surface tension, allowing it to penetrate the surface better.

Thanks for following along and providing steady guidance and support. It really helps.

I'm still not 100% happy with any finish options. I'll go back to the local home supply superstore and see if I can find some alcohol-based stain or dye. I think penetration may be at least part of the issue, so diluting things a little bit might be good.

I get the exact look I want when I wipe a thin coat of Danish oil on... while it's still wet. Nice and golden color, just the right amount of gloss, and the figure has a nice slightly subtle chatoyance. But It isn't drying as super smooth. I just tried sanding back the piece with 4 coats to baby-bottom smoothness and reapplied the Danish oil. Maybe that will do it. I'd previously played with wipe-on varnish and it looks good, but the feel is just a little too plastic-y. 

[a2k]

Sneaking in a mid-week progress report here. Getting close to the end (so I'd better solve my finish issues soon!). Yesterday I got my pickup cavities routed and began sanding. Here are the photos:

Hogging out material:

Routing... this machine still scares the pants off of me, but I'm definitely gaining confidence with it. 

Testing fit:

And after a first pass of sanding (and cabinet scraping to get into the tight spots - I could almost say that I carved this bass with from a block of wood with cabinet scrapers).

This afternoon I'm going to begin smoothing out all of the rough spots around the instrument. There are many...

 

[Prostheta]

Wow. Lookitergo! That's really started to look finished all of a sudden. Exciting stuff. 

You won't get a gloss from straight oil unless it's boiled or blown. Danish oil is a mix of oil and varnish so it'll build a film and eventually become glossier. You can always wax the bass after you've completed the oil application. That's for a later stage in the game though. 

[KnightroExpress]

This is looking great! I really love the koi inlay, it's a great touch.

[a2k]

Thanks! 

On Friday I sanded until my teeth were numb. I went through the ranks starting at 80 grit and worked up to 320, then used a polishing cloth. I've still got to get it wet so I can raise the grain and sand off the fuzz (thanks for the timely article on that!). 

In the meantime, I stuck the bridge back on and got the pegs in minus the screws. Any tips on how to get the peg screw holes lined up properly? One idea I've got is to use one of the join lines between wood pieces as my straight-line and make sure the screws are all at the same angle off straight. Probably simple enough. 

Once the tuners are properly secured, I figure I'd better string it up to make sure everything looks right before finishing. I'm also planning on re-checking the fret level-ness to see if any of the frets need to be tapped back in. My assumption is that it'll play like crap initially until I can do a proper leveling of the frets and get the instrument set up properly. I'm not planning on testing the electronics at this point - any reason why I should? 

I don't think I'm going to be able to get the hard angles I want on the logo using urushi, so plan b is to take it to a place that has a laser and have it etched in (and if they can't etch it, plan c is to get the logo cut out of a thin piece of walnut and glue it on, plan d is to just write it on using a sharpee  ). My plan is nothing as complicated as what this video shows, but I think it's freakin' magic: 

 

I think I've got the finishing plans dialed in now. Sanding back danish oil and applying a final thin coat is getting the results I'm looking for. I do plan on exploring dyes and other more sophisticated finishing techniques in the future. 

I can't wait to plug this thing in! 

No photos of sanding, but here's how the bass currently looks.

 

Edited March 13, 2016 by a2k

[Prostheta]

The tuners? Centrelining through the holes if they're lined up works and the screwholes are in that line. Otherwise I tend to rake my tuners back. I'm annoying like that. For the most part the shape of the headstock and whether they'll interfere with each other makes more of a difference.

[a2k]

13 hours ago, Prostheta said:

The tuners? Centrelining through the holes if they're lined up works and the screwholes are in that line. Otherwise I tend to rake my tuners back. I'm annoying like that. For the most part the shape of the headstock and whether they'll interfere with each other makes more of a difference.

I went boring - 90 degrees from the centerline, but that's what felt right. It's amazing how many little design decisions there are to ponder and make. I will never look at a guitar or bass in the same way. 

I'm currently on coat #2 of the finish. It's so fun to see the wood grain come to life. More to come...

[Prostheta]

I'm sure there's a point at which the angle interferes with the worm gearing in the machine of course, but yeah. It does make a subtle but important aesthetic difference. 

[Prostheta]

7 hours ago, a2k said:

I went boring - 90 degrees from the centerline, but that's what felt right.

Boring but working is better than interesting but clunky. The Carl Thompson style bass I made years back has a B and E string tuner that clash slightly. I took it on the chin and reminded myself to not do that in future.

[a2k]

I cleaned out my storage from the shop last week. Realizing that I'd suddenly come to the end of the heavy cutting phase of this project was bittersweet. Here's a shot of the scraps and other misc. stuff I took home for the wood bank.

Now I'm on to finishing. I did three passes of wetting the wood to raise it, letting it dry, and then sanding it smooth. By the third pass it hardly fuzzed up. I'm now on my fourth (and possibly final) coat of danish oil. It's amazing how it transforms the wood.

During the dark days of the mahogany tear out, I was swearing that I'd never use that horrible wood again. I believe I angrily called it "wood for old-people furniture" at some point. I take back anything bad I may have said about mahogany. Once finished, mahogany is a magical, beautiful, marvelous wood that is fit for unicorn and dragon furniture, and I hope to be lucky enough to work with it again someday.

I've been following the "saturate the wood with oil for 20 minutes, then wipe off" process. Here's a side-by-side comparison of after wiping off the 4th coat with how it looked before finishing. Striking!

Up next, I need to clean up the ends of the frets, re-check that the frets are all seated well, and then put the thing together and see what I've got. 

Edited March 21, 2016 by a2k

[a2k]

HOLY CRAP I BUILT MYSELF A NEW BASS!!!

Here's a picture of my new instrument:

I hooked everything up yesterday, plugged it in, and sound came out! The instrument sounds great - exactly as I'd hoped: full voiced yet articulate and lively, with a ton of flexibility thanks to the EMG preamp. It's truly a rush to get to hear the instrument that I've been working on for so long finally sing. It plays well too... up to the 11th fret. After that, things start to get troublesome. 

Despite my excitement, the upper half of the fretboard definitely needs some work. Almost half the notes from fret 12 up to 24 buzz, and a few entirely fret out on the next fret. It's fret by fret. So far, all I've done is hammer in the frets and run a straight edge over them to make sure they seem straight. I haven't done any sort of leveling, so some issues are expected but I don't really know how close/far I am. 

Right now, the truss rod is totally loose. If I hold down the 1st and 18th fret, there's some relief in the neck. Without a gauge, I'm eyeballing that it "looks about right". When I hold down the 12th and 24th fret, the strings are almost touching - too close? Will the string tension add more bend to the neck over time? 

I've got the bridge saddles raising up a bit (when they are all the way down, the strings just lay on the frets). The action actually feels good - I'm not a featherweight player and I like a bit of action, so getting things super close is not my goal. But obviously I do want the upper half of the fretboard to be playable and I'd like to avoid taking the action much higher if possible. 

It really seems like there are just a few frets that need to be hammered in better (or maybe even glued in if they are popping up a little). Is that appropriate at this point? Or is it better to do a proper leveling? Other recommended next steps & fixes?

I appreciate all of your help.

Thanks!

Aaron