sirspens Posted January 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Holy crap. I just did a search for Bosch jigsaws. That is pricey. I mean, for a good piece of equipment, sure, but it still isn't going to cut true. I think I'll save that money and keep my eye open for a good used bandsaw. I have a craigslist alert set up to let me know when they show up around here. My main problem is that they have all been fairly short in the cutting heights. From what I understand, you want one with a good 9" clear so that you can bookmatch, right? I've never attempted to cut a piece of wood in such a way, so I literally have no clue. @Prostheta, my bit was fine when I was done. Cool to the touch with no discoloration. I didn't slow down, but I wasn't burning through it, either. That is really my biggest challenge. In Architecture school I was HORRIBLE at model building. I just didn't have the patience for it. I am more patient and interested in good craftsmanship these days, but I still have to remind myself to slow down, do it once and do it right. Or, better, do a couple test runs on a scrap, then do it right. Edited January 5, 2016 by sirspens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 55 minutes ago, sirspens said: I think I'll save that money and keep my eye open for a good used bandsaw. Good call. My Craftsman bandsaw was roughly $500 new and has just a hair under 7" clearance. That will bookmatch all the guitar bodies I've made so far. It's rare to find a body over 14 inches wide. I'd love to have a bigger more powerful one, but his one has more than done all I've asked it to. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 1 hour ago, sirspens said: Holy crap. I just did a search for Bosch jigsaws. That is pricey. I mean, for a good piece of equipment, sure, but it still isn't going to cut true. I think I'll save that money and keep my eye open for a good used bandsaw. I have a craigslist alert set up to let me know when they show up around here. My main problem is that they have all been fairly short in the cutting heights. From what I understand, you want one with a good 9" clear so that you can bookmatch, right? I've never attempted to cut a piece of wood in such a way, so I literally have no clue. @Prostheta, my bit was fine when I was done. Cool to the touch with no discoloration. I didn't slow down, but I wasn't burning through it, either. That is really my biggest challenge. In Architecture school I was HORRIBLE at model building. I just didn't have the patience for it. I am more patient and interested in good craftsmanship these days, but I still have to remind myself to slow down, do it once and do it right. Or, better, do a couple test runs on a scrap, then do it right. Jigsaws can get pricey, definitely. I don't think there's much advantage gained in that investment though. Even a silly-expensive Festool would be inadequate for the kind of things we'd end up expecting of it. Yeah, unlike the students in the same workspace as myself you actually have your head screwed on. That and the price of replacement cutters and repairs on equipment didn't come out of their own pockets....that hurt me to watch on a weekly basis you know? It got to the point of playing "what's that noise?" (belt slipping on a table ripsaw) or "what's that smell?" (said belt burning, brakes left on thicknesser, router bits choking and sending burning dust into the extractor....) which is certainly something you don't do in your own workshop. The thing that got me most? Somebody is going to end up employing them.... It's worth hanging fire before pulling the trigger on a new bandsaw. Saving a couple hundred bucks more soon makes all the difference. Sturdier frame, better tracking, reliable adjustment and all kinds of things. It's worth seeing a bandsaw as a significant investment going forward than as simply something to tick off the list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted January 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) MDF is a bitch. I had to cut two 2-inch holes in it today. After an 80 hour work week, I got a few hours in the garage today. I got my router base mounted to my router table insert. Miracle of miracles the first time and everything lined up perfectly, even the key to raise and lower it. Lots of being very careful there. Here it is mounted to the table insert: Here it is at the router table. It just flips upside down and sits in that hole all nice and snug. I haven't tested it because the screws it came with were rather short and I want to see if I can find some longer bolts to make sure it is nice and secure. Once I get that going, I can use a temporary fence to do the routing on my permanent fence and get that put together. I also made a spindle sander jig with my drill press. That tube at the back is a vacuum hose extender that is holding the press in a slightly down position. I then did some testing on a scrap piece of MDF to see how easy it would be to sand out along an outline. I only did about an inch of the outline I drew and it took forever. But I was able to create a smooth approximation of the curve with a vertical edge. It is going to take a long time to sand out my template. The real problem arose with the paper the outline is drawn on not sanding at the same rate as the MDF, so it had a tendency to hang over, which made it hard to see the line. I am going to have to keep a razor blade by my side to smooth the paper up as I sand so that I can better follow the outline. That's all for now. Two more intense weeks of work, then I am going to take a stay-cation and get some serious work done on this guitar. Edited January 11, 2016 by sirspens spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 You could take a cheap sabre saw and clean a lot of that up close to the template out line without compromising the squareness of the edge. Just use it to remove material and then let your spindle sander bring it in to the line. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted January 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 3 hours ago, ScottR said: You could take a cheap sabre saw and clean a lot of that up close to the template out line without compromising the squareness of the edge. Just use it to remove material and then let your spindle sander bring it in to the line. SR Yeah. I just got a cheap scroll saw for free off Craigslist. I am going to get some blades for it and see if I can get a lot more cut off with that. I have a cheap jig saw, but I seriously do not trust it. I have seen it be off by like 20-degrees before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Ouch! Well, I can relate. The sole retention mechanism on the one I borrowed was screwed up so yeah. Jigsaws are pedantic little devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 We have a member here, goes by Drak, that cut all his bodies with a scroll saw, and he makes great looking guitars. I can't imagine doing that with mine, so I'm assuming his is a better saw. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 One might guess a near-infinite degree of patience also, however his tendency to annihilate projects that have faults of any kind might suggest otherwise. I miss @Drak's consistently pornographic output whether it be amazing woods, finishes or acts of violence and destruction. That said, last we heard he seemed to have been kinder to his projects....they survived.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kavar57 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 same here I cut mine with a cheep scroll saw, the blade bent, I did not see this and ended with a / cut that almost messed it up bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Day 0 of my 10 day vacation in which I will be working on my guitar project. For the last three weeks I have been working 14 hour days finishing a project at work. So, now... I guess I have a different project. But this should be fun. Over the last couple weeks I have worked on the template some more. Once I got the exterior finished, I immediately dropped it and it fell on the corner. So, I made a new template from the template.... This time using the jig saw. Routing it out, the corner transferred pretty well, despite the damage. I'll need to round it out a bit by hand, but it worked pretty well. Here is the template made from the template.... This evening I began working on the interior hollow body portion of the template. Since the interior isn't as precious as the exterior, I used the jig saw to cut it out, but drilled several pilot holes so I could have areas of refuge along the way around. Of course, jig saws do dirty work. This is what it looked like.... I left enough room that I can still clean it up, but that was me being extremely careful, and still an ugly cut from the jig saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Tomorrow, on day 1 of my vacation, I will begin in earnest on the project. I will finish up my router table, create my neck template, and the big project will be building a thicknessing jig. I am going to build one similar to this, that can be used both for neck and body work: Here is my question... This rendering shows using MDF for the side elevations, which makes sense, but I don't have much wood working equipment, no table saw, which would make that harder to do, since I would have to cut those long lengths by hand, and I would need 3 levels of 3/4" just to get 2-1/4" (something higher than 1-3/4"). My other thought is to use some kind of 2x (2x3 finish piece, getting me 2-1/2") turned sideways, but in order for the thicknessing jig to actually provide a uniform thickness I would have to have a perfectly straight board on each side. And, I don't have a jointer. If I had this equipment, I wouldn't need to build work arounds. I guess I could use a hand planer and caliper to carefully ensure that my sides are perfectly level the entire length of the jig, but.... I was hoping you guys might be able to offer some advice. What is the best way to ensure that I have a perfectly level thicknessing jig without having a bunch of woodworking equipment in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 That old cartchicken and horseegg situation. Sheet stock is the best way forward, and MDF tends to be pretty accurate, if not very durable. Plywood can be, but it depends on how well your supplier stores it. It's no problem taking sheet stock and sawing it by hand or simply using your router with a straight cutter and an edge guide. If your router has one of these, cut a trench about halfway through with the router, cut it through the trench using a hand saw and then finish up the edges using a bearing guided template cutter. It's not perfect but you can get damn close. MDF is the most likely to have a dimensionally-stable flat surface, but 1" thick plywood will last you longer. Some wood suppliers will have a tablesaw or vertical panelsaw onsite, so ring around a couple and see whether you can do the basic processing of your stock there and then. The other option is to grab a six-pack of beer or a tin of coffee and get a local woodworker to do it for you. It's five minutes to them and a few dollars for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Thanks @Prostheta! I ended up going with the MDF solution. The plywood supply at the local store didn't look great. Here's the jig: According to my caliper, I am within 0.5mm of level running up and down both sides. I think that is close enough. You will notice I have added carriage bolts on each side so that, with some 1x scrap, I can hold a body or neck rough-cut in place. Showing some scale: When it came to building the sliding jig, I decide to do it by hand, because I was tired of wearing hearing and eye protection, and throwing dust up into the air. And then vacuuming it up. So I pulled out my cheap plastic miter box, and it worked quite well. Here is is almost done. I also added bolt holes at the bottom so that it can bolt down into my router table to be held still. Here it is completed with the end pieces on the slider. I went with a design where you drag the router across the slider, instead of the slider moving in two dimensions. I hope I don't regret that, but it just seemed more stable to me. This evening I will begin work on my neck template so that I can begin work on the neck tomorrow. Oh, I also bought a beautiful piece of African Mahogany today. Way too much. I think I can get two guitars out of it. Pics on that later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Both work just as well more times than as not. The only thing to bear in mind is that you have a tendency to bear downwards on the router, which can deflect the cross gantry. Your reinforcement goes a long way to helping prevent it. Rubbing a tealight candle (stearine, paraffin wax) into the slide and on the outer rails helps keep it moving nicely. Just be careful not to contaminate the workpiece and to clean the router base after use. Over the last three weeks or so, I've seen about 4-5 people using carriage bolts in that fashion as a way of holding a workpiece into a jig. The first thing that runs through my mind is safety, since you want no metal in the area that cutters are operating. In addition, the extent that they protrude from the side rails can cause them to bear upwards once they contact the item they are cinching up. The path of least resistance; upwards. I've never liked that idea for the potential issues it might contain. Even double-sided tape is more consistent by comparison, but not friendly to the MDF work surface. More than likely it will work, however the alarms in my head are perhaps overly sensitive these days.... Looking good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris G Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Looking Good and Welcome!! Everyone here will give a ton of great advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted January 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 9 hours ago, Prostheta said: Over the last three weeks or so, I've seen about 4-5 people using carriage bolts in that fashion as a way of holding a workpiece into a jig. The first thing that runs through my mind is safety I understand that. That is why I was intending to use 1x between the carriage bolts and what I am cutting. In addition, I can slip some crap pieces into my slider jig to limit how far I can move the router, which would eliminate the risk of going beyond the limits I should stay within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 I like it. Engineering on the fly is what shows we're awake! Nothing like standing back and sipping coffee whilst staring at the patient! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted January 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Over the last few days I have been reading and watching videos more on building necks. I'm not too worried about the neck (well, I am, but within reason), but fretting and the nut has really started to worry me. I can come up with work-arounds for a lot of things, but cutting the right size slot in a fretboard, getting the fret wire cut and placed and filed, oh and the nut... these seem to be tasks that you actually require specialized tools to pull off. And that isn't the kind of stuff I just have laying around. I went and looked at what a neck from somebody like Warmoth would cost. Somewhere in the $250 to $300 range (for something pretty basic). Then I went and looked at all the tools I would need that I would have a hard time finding a work-around for, from StewMac. The cost comes out to around $340. So, if I am going to make more than one neck (and I am, even if I completely blow the first build, I will try again), then it makes sense to buy the tools. So... It looks like I am placing a big StewMac order.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted January 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, Prostheta said: I like it. Engineering on the fly is what shows we're awake! Nothing like standing back and sipping coffee whilst staring at the patient! Oh, also, I put the carriage bolts really low. Assuming I am only ever working on a neck or body piece in this jig, they are far too low to hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Yeah, you'll never get near them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted January 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Took it kind of easy today, but I got a lot done. I used both a band saw and scroll saw for the first time today. Even throwing the blade off the band saw, the scroll saw scared the shit out of me a lot more than the band saw. Which seems the opposite of how it should be. I started the day picking up a band saw and scroll saw for $60 off craigslist. The band saw (what I was actually after) is only a 10" Craftsman with a 5" cut height, but after picking up the plank of mahogany yesterday, I realized I would need some efficient way of cutting this material. I used the morning sanding out some of the rougher curves on my template. I then got the router table up and running for the first time and made some safety copies of the template, along with another copy that I can use for the interior routing. The band saw made quick work of the templates. And the scroll saw made the interior cutting on the interior routing template pretty easy. Tomorrow I will finish up the templates. I threw the blade off the band saw, but after getting three templates cut. I also pulled a template off a cheap double cutaway body I had laying around. I got the blade reinstalled without too much trouble. Here are the templates with the wood. I am almost done with the neck template, with just the straight lines to cut, which will be easy. I am using maple for the neck and mahogany for the body. I know mahogany is a considered a cheap wood, but that is a beautiful plank of wood, if I have any say in it. Tomorrow.... get this -- Tomorrow, I am going to actually cut wood. This shit gets real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Wow, you've got me jealous. The things I would do to that board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted January 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 4 hours ago, Prostheta said: Wow, you've got me jealous. The things I would do to that board. When I walked into "Fine Lumber & Plywood" (in Austin, TX, to through out a plug) I was thinking I would need to find something to join together, thinking that wider pieces would obviously cost much more than smaller dimensioned lumber. But,.... no. They said, "We charge by volume, no matter what it is." That wasn't even the widest board they had. The next smallest was just 1/4" too small. I bought 4', which is kind of a stupid dimension, but I was kind of thrown off at the moment. I think I can get three guitars out of it, if I am careful, and do a smaller one I am planning. Cost: $60. Now, Mahogany is special like that. It grows large enough that you get large pieces. Maple, Alder, Cherry.... almost anything else is going to be really rare in that dimension. But I was ecstatic to find something I could do a one-piece body out of for so cheap. The only problem is I am doing a thin-line, basically. So I am going to need to top it with somwthing, and this is so wide they couldn't split it for me, so I am either going to have to thickness a 2" piece of lumber down to 3/8", crying the entire time, or come up with a different plan for the top. (or, actaully, I am considering do the back. And using this single piece as the top.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Just make sure that the wood is thoroughly acclimatised; wide boards like that have large amount of concentric growth rings which could induce cupping if it's still drying. Just the nature of the beast I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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