SIMpleONe89 Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Perfect! Are you going to do a burst as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Now that's exactly what I was talking abour earlier on Tim. Heavy contrast or strong dye solutions tend to create chalky-looking "all or nothing" areas in the rising and falling grain. In my opinion, that's one of the main differences between a cheap factory finish (where it's made to get out of the door ASAP with as few finishing steps as possible) and a laboured over, loved finish, where every step is methodically pored over and done to whatever level it takes with the quality of the finished item as the goal....not delivery. That's a very classy look to the test piece. I'd like to do something along these lines when I am able to do a proper dye finish, but with a light "brown with a green tint" at the edges. That kind of "goldtop sickness"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted May 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Thanks guys! Simpleone, I'm kinda thinking about mixing up a darker mix of the Amber, yellow, red mix and doing a slight burst around the very edges but I'm not sure if I'm going to go that route yet or not. Pros, I agree now that I see it. On this last test I made up my Amber and brown dyes super diluted and slowly added color till I got the darkness that I wanted, I can see the difference between the 2 pieces and I think it looks much better when it's not super concentrated. I was thinking the ugly spots was just because my sand back sucks but I don't think that is the case anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I might be wrong on this, however this is how I see dye; it's pigment and a solvent. The solvent (alcohol/water) will evaporate or migrate into and out of the piece, leaving the dye behind. If you make up a strong dye, the wood acts as a filter drawing out the pigment and leaving a strong buildup of colour right on and just under the surface. The end grain from rising/falling fibres sucks that right up and will go dark as hell. Diluting allows less to be left in place. making it easier to control through sanding back, etc. I never studied finishing as part of my wood manufacturing degree. This is simply based on my opinion and feel of the stuff. Lighter and thinner seems easier to control, blend and lay down. Heavier just saturates and blocks it up easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted May 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 ^^ this makes sense to me! And as I am learning there is a very fine line between not enough pigment and to much pigment. Just a 1/4 cup of extra water with the same amount of pigment can totally change the outcome of the dye. This time I started with 3/4 cup of water instead of 1/4 cup and the same amount of dye and just slowly added dye till a decent color was achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I always feel that your sandback color should be a darker version of your main color other than black. Black can be used to deepen that color but it tends to make everything look dirty if used alone. Another way to build contrast and deepen the color in the dark areas is to wipe on repeated coats of a more dilute dye. It deepens the dark areas with the right color and makes it easier not to go over board with a single application. And yet another way if you are suing alcohol as the carrier, is to put on a heavy coat of dye and then with a fresh rag or fine steel wool loaded with clean alcohol, wipe it back off. It will pull much color out of the light areas and leave much in the dark areas, the open grain. It's a good way to do a wipe on burst as well. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Ultimately, it's the results that have the final word. Experimenting and finding your feel for such things is something you just can't do enough work with. Looking forward to when I can do so again....that and having a workbench stained all manner of crappy colours! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMpleONe89 Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 2 hours ago, Prostheta said: Ultimately, it's the results that have the final word. Experimenting and finding your feel for such things is something you just can't do enough work with. Looking forward to when I can do so again....that and having a workbench stained all manner of crappy colours! I actually spilled my jar of brown stain when I was working on the neck, onto my makeshift MDF work bench. Then I didn't care about spilling any more and moments later that piece of MDF is looking rather colourful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted May 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 8 hours ago, ScottR said: I always feel that your sandback color should be a darker version of your main color other than black. Black can be used to deepen that color but it tends to make everything look dirty if used alone. Another way to build contrast and deepen the color in the dark areas is to wipe on repeated coats of a more dilute dye. It deepens the dark areas with the right color and makes it easier not to go over board with a single application. And yet another way if you are suing alcohol as the carrier, is to put on a heavy coat of dye and then with a fresh rag or fine steel wool loaded with clean alcohol, wipe it back off. It will pull much color out of the light areas and leave much in the dark areas, the open grain. It's a good way to do a wipe on burst as well. SR Scott I think you're onto something here, I tried and tried to get the black to work. Switched over to the brown from a little guidance from a couple guys and I think the brown is just close enough but darker to the Amber that it worked so much better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 If I recall, aren't "black" pigments coarser than other colours? Really hunting my head for what I am thinking about here, where exactly I learnt that and whether it applies in this instance with these products. Hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Some handy tips here. I've been struggling to get the effect I'm after with the sandback layers & I think that diluting the stain is the way to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Prostheta said: If I recall, aren't "black" pigments coarser than other colours? Really hunting my head for what I am thinking about here, where exactly I learnt that and whether it applies in this instance with these products. Hmm. I'm not sure about that one Carl. You are correct that pigments of various colors grind down to different sizes and shapes due ultimately to the molecular structure of the minerals being ground for said pigment. White is problematic because the pigments are long little rods. But I think much of black pigment is from carbon which grinds down exceedingly fine. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 True about carbon, definitely. That might well depend on the dye however. I know carbon works very nicely with oils and paints, however I'm unsure as to lighter solvents. Again, I wish I could remember the source of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 It could very well depend on the dye, you are correct. Most of my info comes from dealing with screen printing inks and how the pigments affect their performance. It could be totally different for dyes. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Prostheta Posted June 1, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 @2.5itim @curtisa Guys - I contacted the guys at Hipshot and they confirmed that there was an error of 0,27" in the offset. You got it more or less right on the head with 0,25". Bill passes on his thanks for snagging this and hopes that it didn't cause any inconvenience. Hipshot should be correcting their dimensioning in the meantime. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 That's awesome man!! I'm glad that I came in the ball park, thank you for getting in contact with them and letting them know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 You're welcome. It's important that we're able to sense-check everything, and I guess with your line of work having two separate workings-out helps confirm that any value is correct....and why.... We can't know why the problem crept in. It just did. The units themselves are great, so from hereonout we know that you're the only person in the world who's set it up correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) Haha I don't know about the only person but I am surprised this didn't arise before now. It is a great product and lots of people use them so it's kind of surprising. Edited June 1, 2016 by 2.5itim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 I'm sure. People tend to go by dimensions without question, and then think that the company's products are all poor because of one dimensional slip up. Nobody's perfect I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komodo Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Sorry I've been offline and just saw this. But, you seem to have nailed it. I believe that I did do a black layer, but it was after I had done the base ambers? I'd have to go back and read my own posts. LOL I do know, that while it was great, everything exploded when I hit it with my magic yellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Hey man, good to see you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted June 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 On June 23, 2016 at 0:50 PM, komodo said: Sorry I've been offline and just saw this. But, you seem to have nailed it. I believe that I did do a black layer, but it was after I had done the base ambers? I'd have to go back and read my own posts. LOL I do know, that while it was great, everything exploded when I hit it with my magic yellow. If you ever feel like giving up your magic yellow recipe you let me know haha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komodo Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I found this in my Dragon build thread: "Also, while I feel I have a handle in the blacks, browns and ambers with my testing. I never really got the yellow/gold center wash of a sunburst. Even a tiger eye amber burst has some yellow in the center. My straight thin mix was very bright yellow, vibrant but wrong. Today I added a TINY pinch of amber and POW! I've labelled the jar "magic yellow". I started wiping it on every test sample I had." So, I think I had a jar of yellow mixed very thin thinking I would get a yellowy glow in the center for a mild sunburst. The yellow is extremely vibrant, and even mixed thin it was just too much and didn't blend. (BTW - these are with alcohol based powder analine dyes.) What I did was add a TINY pinch of amber to the yellow and this warmed it to a golden yellow. When rubbed on, it warmed up everything. Plus since it has more alcohol in it, it also works to thin out the base coats where you rub harder, and add in the golden color. I think that was really the magic part. It also made everything I rubbed it on look better. The worst part of it was trying to wash it off my face with steel wool and Brillo pads after rubbing it on to see if it made me look better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted November 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Well I've pretty much fell off the face of the earth for a few months, I've had to put a lot of work into my truck and have been working on the Subaru a bit and it's been dang hot in the shop so the guitars kinda took the back burner for a little while, now that the trucks running and it's nice and cool out I can get back to work. Today I spent some time in the shop trying to figure out where the hell I left off, I started to carve the volume/tone/selector out and got the volume and pickup selector done, still need to carve the tone spot and finish sand but I'm pretty happy with it so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 I wondered what happened to you. That's a familiar looking gouge. That highly figured maple can be tricky to carve. You've got to keep chasing the grain around. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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