Zack Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 #2 seems to be more interesting and #1 has a slightly more subdued "classy" look. I guess that's not much different than smelling the color blue, but my opinions are always worth what you pay for 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Do it whichever way it lands. Count the people that complain and those that don't, then tell the majority of people they're wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 45 minutes ago, Prostheta said: Do it whichever way it lands. Count the people that complain and those that don't, then tell the majority of people they're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I like the second one best as well. I do see the temptation for the first as well. I guess we see the your original choice when you continue with this..... SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Zack said: #2 seems to be more interesting and #1 has a slightly more subdued "classy" look. I guess that's not much different than smelling the color blue, but my opinions are always worth what you pay for 'em.  8 minutes ago, ScottR said: I like the second one best as well. I do see the temptation for the first as well. I guess we see the your original choice when you continue with this..... SR Yes - I like the second one too. In this view, I like the movement:  And this way round, Scott... ...we see the flames flickering around Bert's horns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said: ...we see the flames flickering around Bert's horns We do indeed. If you went with similar hardware Bert may even have a chrome grill. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted August 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 Top is now cut and the sides sanded (top not yet finish sanded): The wenge demarcation veneer can be seen at the bottom here. I'm hoping the end grain pattern of the mahogany bodes well for when I cut the chamfer! : The neck has been sanded with my large levelling beam (although to be honest, it didn't need it - two superb and beautifully planed mahogany neck outer splices supplied by UK luthier timbers supplier David Dyke ) and the walnut centre splice glued, offset by 11mm to form the channel for the truss rod: ...and with that clamped and set, the second outer splice glued and clamped: It's not often I've made such a lot of progress in one morning - the provision of even this small work-space and proper workbench hasn't half made a difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 Clamping cauls would have been advisable there, Andy. Seeing as how you manage to pull all kinds of surprise rabbits out of your hat successfully, I don't even know if this would make any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted August 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 28 minutes ago, Prostheta said: Clamping cauls would have been advisable there, Andy. Seeing as how you manage to pull all kinds of surprise rabbits out of your hat successfully, I don't even know if this would make any difference. Actually, @Prostheta , I think you are going to be really proud of me Having re-seen the splendid illustration you put on your tutorial, for gluing the walnut onto the first mahogany splice, I used the full length of the second splice as a caul for the clamps. Even more impressive, perhaps, is that if you look above, it is the right hand side I'm gluing.  Both ends are clamped in the wide vices, but with spacers to allow....wait for it....a wide thick marine ply caul for the whole of the middle between the two vices!!!! The clamps in the front of the photo are a couple of 'just in cases' to make sure the vices weren't angling the joint.h Bit worrying, really.  Mind you, I've got lots of dubious practices still left in my arsenal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 I think I maybe misunderstood what I was looking at, then! I can see that now....okay, right. I get it. Clamping's a funny old game. I mean, when you look at the technical datasheets for various glues and then do the mathematics, the pressures for a technically-perfect joint get ridiculously-high. For the most part, we get the results we need if we undershoot, perhaps with a visible glueline. Maximum bond strength is difficult to gauge when you're out of the zone, pressurewise. I've never really had any kind of physical failure when only achieving 50% of ideal clamping pressure, but definitely gluelines. I guess when you've got a film thick enough to telegraphs itself in the joint, you wonder how compromised the ultimate bond strength will be. It's difficult to test, however I'd like to see how that could be done. Matthias Wandel's videos on YouTube aren't even close to a real representation of that. Things only get dubious when they're blatantly unsafe, poorly thought out or completely batshit insane. Like using a car jack as a press. 2000lbs is nothing. Two big clamps easily manage that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted August 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 ....and I'm delighted to say that it is the best neck splice bonding I've ever done.  Folks, if you haven't yet read @Prostheta 's tutorial on clamping, it's well worth a look  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted August 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 Bit more progress on this. The figured top is moving all over the place in terms of flatness so I'm going to have to .... I can't believe what I am about to say ... do things conventionally! As many of you know, I would normally make up the body (top, back and slot) and then slide the through-neck into the slot.  But on this one, I am going to have to glue the back wings to the neck beam and then glue the unruly top onto that (with good glue and plenty, plenty of cauls and clamps) In terms of preparing for that, I've: Drawn the side view full scale to make absolutely sure I have calculated the (zero) neck angle correctly Thicknessed the neck beam to finished depth Thicknessed the neck beam to finished max width Cut the notch in the neck beam for the top to slot into Cut the side-view shape of the neck or...in pictures... The full-size drawing:  Routing the notch in the neck beam The basic components:  I will at some stage be gluing the back sections to the neck:  then, after routing the control cable runs and control / weight relief chambers, glue on the top:  But before I do any of that, while the neck is free and unhampered with body components, do the main bandsaw work: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 19 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: do things conventionally! Tough pill to swallow eh? I think I would stick with your original plan only glue in the neck and level the surface of the tenon with your body wood, and then glue the top the same way you plan to now. In fact that is what I do on all my builds. It means you have to finish the build with the neck in place, but so does what you are doing now. I see you have the same problem with birds in the back yard as I do. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 1 hour ago, ScottR said: I see you have the same problem with birds in the back yard as I do. SR Actually, that is a lichen-type bloom.  Looks like chewing gum stains on a badly maintained city pavement!   Now, on the other hand....round at the front of the house... :  1 hour ago, ScottR said: Tough pill to swallow eh? I think I would stick with your original plan only glue in the neck and level the surface of the tenon with your body wood, and then glue the top the same way you plan to now. In fact that is what I do on all my builds. It means you have to finish the build with the neck in place, but so does what you are doing now.  Yes indeed - it's a bit of a shocker.  Can't think of anything I've ever done conventionally before.  Anyway, it's worth a try.  Having said that, I probably won't do it like I should and that will make me feel a bit better about it...  I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but below is how I'm tackling it.  After sawing the rough taper of the neck and squaring up the joining surfaces, this is the first side going on: I have some wenge veneer between the two components.  With the veneer already bonded to the top, it will basically surround the neck joins and, other than the different body woods, look similar to the camphor single cut bass I did earlier in the year:     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 And a lovely bass that was too! -re the front of the house: HOLY CRAP! (Literally) That poor car has a birdy bullseye on it. Do try to come up with something a bit unconventional with the way you are tackling that. Convention is not something to be given in to. SR  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 12 minutes ago, ScottR said: -re the front of the house: HOLY CRAP! (Literally) That poor car has a birdy bullseye on it.  You know there are things in life that give you that warm glow of contentment...like knowing that this is someone else's house, car and bird-poop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted August 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 First half is on and flat and level with the neck:  ...and from the back:  The critical surface, based on the fact that the top is so variable, is the top-surface of the back.  I remain comprehensively rubbish at producing flat large surfaces and I didn't want to trust that the second back panel was exactly the same thickness so, to glue and clamp that panel, I have turned the bass upside down. Put me out of my misery....is that conventional too??? Anyway - the one side of my workbench is flat, so I've used that as the datum, with vertical clamping as well as horizontal clamping.  For good measure, as I was tightening up the side clamps, I also energetically whacked the two components with a heavy mallet to make absolutely sure it was all flat against the workbench top: It has a combination of vice dogs, sash clamps and conventional screw clamps.  Based on the other side which has no gaps at all, I think this is OK even if it does look light on numbers - saying that, the bench vice and sash clamps are applying a significant pressure.  In the ideal world, I would have left the back panels square (which would have made it easier to use a line of bench dogs with the vice) and then cut out the shape but my teeny bandsaw wouldn't have the throat size for the job. Note the clingfilm to make sure that it doesn't comprehensively glue itself to my workbench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 Save the bits of wood you cut from the outside to make body cauls Andy.....! That would save you from having to deal with the crushed wood that those clamps are going to leave you. I have a difficult job, because in many ways I agree that "you can't criticise something that works". Take the masking tape and superglue "trick" replacement for double-sided tape. From an educational standpoint, that idea has to be disclaimered so heavily, because there are so many pitfalls and unpredictable elements. It doesn't provide enough reliance that you can fully endorse it from a safe educational standpoint. Of course, people can do what they want and for the most part half-measures work half of the time. If you've got enough experience, you can leverage that in your favour because you know how to stack the deck. In terms of relating techniques or ideas to people for the first time, that's where problems start. Clearly you've got enough working experience and practical knowledge to make the most of less than ideal circumstances or techniques. Same as @SIMpleONe89; you guys both manage to achieve more than some "equipped people" with much less. I might have gone totally off track (again) however I guess that it's important to make the distinction. A simple bit of work for the experienced who can mitigate problems or see them coming might be totally irresponsible to recommend to those that are not or cannot. I think you don't step into the ring unless you know the fight already Andy, and that's something that can't be taught. Only learnt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted August 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 I think that was a sort of compliment, @Prostheta   Let's be optimistic and assume it is....thanks Ref the crushed wood, I wasn't overly concerned because the backs are at least 4mm oversize where the clamps are and very unlikely to show any deep bruising. Also, on a pragmatic level, my clamps generally weren't wide enough to take a decent thickness of caul Some wider clamps are now certainly on my shopping list.  I am also starting to accumulate a variety of lengths and widths of cauls.  I am sold on the concept and they will be essential when I glue the top on.  I have some great off cuts of the marine ply I used for the acoustic neck routing rig which are absolutely ideal.  I have an ambition on this build of needing NO filler for any of the clamped joints!  I know...scary, isn't it!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 It totally was! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 To paraphrase that entire lot with a well worn cliche, there is more than one way to skin a cat. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 "More than one way to skin your teeth"Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted August 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 4 hours ago, ScottR said: To paraphrase that entire lot with a well worn cliche, there is more than one way to skin a cat. SR Having said that, I suspect they all feel the same to the cat..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: Having said that, I suspect they all feel the same to the cat..... It occurs to me that the cat likely has never even been consulted in this endeavor. Cats are known to be opinionated. I suspect they may have a couple on the prospect. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 I'll ask mine (Spit) who is laid on me this morning whilst I read the news and drink coffee. Oh, he rolled onto his back. I think that was a motion to dismiss on ground of proportionality. Case dismissed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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