Bridge position & intonation range?

[champ222]

Hi, I'm new here, and hopefully someone can help.

when positioning a bridge on a body, a fixed bridge such as a hipshot, should i position it so that the scale length measurement sits at mid point of the intonation range? ive intonated a few guitars, but ive never really noticed where the saddles are in relation to the scale length measurement, are they usually forward, or behind the 25.5" "line"? or is either equally likely? i dont want to run out of adjustment in either direction.

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks

 

[ADFinlayson]

Welcome to the forum. I leave the saddles roughly positioned as they come then place the bridge so that the top E is on the intonation line and the bottom E is 2-3 MM passed the intonation line. Those hardtail style bridges have quite a lot of adjustment so it's hard to go wrong on intonation. I find the main thing to worry about is getting the lateral position of the bridge right. If you're building a bolt on you've got a bit of leeway because you can loosen the bolts and yank the neck over a bit to get it right, but on a set neck it's worth getting the neck glued up, place a rule along each side of the neck taper and draw a line on each side to continue the taper, then mark a centre line in the middle of the two taper lines before placing the bridge. 

I describe how I do it in this vid

 

[champ222]

Hi, thanks for getting back to me, Its a bolt on, and the bridges are string through, so i was going to get the neck in, and draw the lines like you suggested, and put the two E strings in to ensure they are spaced nicely. i should be able to get the strings tight enough to get a good view of things. then i can mark the holes for the bridge.

i have two bridges i can use, they both have approx 6-7mm of intonation range.

Good work by the way, that guitar looks lovely... i'm just putting factory necks onto bodies i have made for me, so no craftmanship from me at all really haha.

Thanks again 

[curtisa]

If there's any possibility you're going to be playing with drop tunings or large string gauges it's better to position the bridge with the saddles nearly as far forward as they will go rather than in the middle. Intonation compensation, if the saddle is placed on the scale length line, will always result in the saddle being moved back away from the nut, even on the high E string which typically doesn't require much extra length to intonate. The wound strings need the most intonation compensation, and if you're going to be stringing up with large strings tuned low you're going to need as much of that 6-7mm of adjustment range as you can get away with.

Even if you start with the saddles in the middle of their range, it's possible to run out of adjustment movement on the low-E string, as the spring behind the saddle will compress to its limit and not allow any further movement without having to be removed.

[Bizman62]

As your design is string through, a temporary bridge might help you find the intonation line. For that you'd need something like a piece of T-profile aluminium bar or a triangular piece of hard wood. The height has to be in the ballpark of the desired action. You'll also need both of the E strings. The rest will fall in between so there's no need for those at this point.

So you string the guitar, tune the E strings and slide the makeshift bridge to get the intonation right for both strings. Mark the end points and you'll know the needed intonation range by comparing the slanted line to the bridge.

 

[curtisa]

The OP has mentioned the bridge as being a Hipshot hardtail type with string-thru body. That would indicate that the string-thru drill holes are dictated by whatever holes are cast into the bridge baseplate, which means that the string-thru holes must be drilled after the bridge location is known with regards to nominal scale length.

[champ222]

Thanks guys

Ive been doing some further reading about compensation, at it seems that the saddles are "always" further back from the intonation line, which is the 25.5" line from the nut? or is it more complicated than that?

the string through holes are already in the body, though i have some wiggle room, and can open them out a little if needed.

Thanks again

[curtisa]

Just now, champ222 said:

t seems that the saddles are "always" further back from the intonation line, which is the 25.5" line from the nut?

Correct. How much further back from the 25.5" line depends on the string - its gauge, tension/pitch, construction and to a lesser extent the action of that string.

 

3 minutes ago, champ222 said:

the string through holes are already in the body,

There's no guarantee the bridge can be positioned appropriately if you line it up based on the pre-drilled string-thru holes, so be prepared to redrill them or at least 'massage' the alignment between the holes in the bridge plate and the holes in the body.

[champ222]

my apologies, i cant suss the multi-quote:

t seems that the saddles are "always" further back from the intonation line, which is the 25.5" line from the nut?

Correct. How much further back from the 25.5" line depends on the string - its gauge, tension/pitch, construction and to a lesser extent the action of that string.

for me, it would be 9s and standard tuning, but never say never, and i might sell it one day, and they may have different plans

the string through holes are already in the body,

There's no guarantee the bridge can be positioned appropriately if you line it up based on the pre-drilled string-thru holes, so be prepared to redrill them or at least 'massage' the alignment between the holes in the bridge plate and the holes in the body.

Yeah that was my thought process too, i have two bridges available for use, the hipshot mentioned, and an ibanez bridge. The position of the string through holes in the base plate, and the max and min of the saddles is different, so i may have to slot the holes in the body a little, shouldnt be an issue though i dont think.

 

[Bizman62]

An addition to my previous post about the makeshift bridge for finding the intonation point:

Jerry Rosa from Rosa String Works uses that method. Further, he is using a makeshift trapeze for attaching the ball ends of the two strings. It's a simple piece bent from a wire laundry hanger hooked to the strap button with a piece of leather protecting the edge of the body.

[MiKro]

From Stewmac calculator.

ridge placement for 25.500" scale length
Distance indicated is from the fretboard edge of the nut to center of forward-most mounting screw or pivot post.
Telecaster® style bridges	25.750" (± 0.030")
Stratocaster® style bridges Non-tremolo bridge	25.250" (± 0.030")
Tremolo bridges	25.250" (± 0.030")
Floyd Rose® locking tremolos Floyd Rose Original	25.000" (± 0.030")
Floyd Rose II & Schaller Floyd Rose	24.937" (± 0.030")
Tune-o-matic style bridges	25.562" (± 0.030") from nut to center of treble-side post. Mount bass-side post 1/16"-1/8" further from the nut.
Combo Bridge/Tailpieces	25.562" (± 0.030") from nut to center of treble-side post. Mount bass-side post 1/16"-1/8" further from the nut.
Other
Schaller Non-Tremolo Roller Bridge	26.343" (± 0.030")
Top-Loading Style Hardtail Bridge	26.250" (± 0.030")