help lowering neck.

[Lonekimono]

Hi this is relatively new to me. I have a guitar that I need to lower the neck. So it is closer to the body. I am looking for some advice on an easy way to accomplish this. I am afraid that I am going to mess it up. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

[Bizman62]

Why exactly would you do that?

There's two ways to do that, either by carving the neck cavity deeper or by cutting the heel thinner.

CAUTION!

BUT!!! By doing so you would also change the action. Lowering the nut would change the angle between the neck and the strings. If you lower the neck by 3 mm you'd raise the action at the 16th fret by the same amount and even more at the 21st.

There's ways to fix the above issue as well. A lower bridge would do the trick quite easily if you can find one. Or you could route the neck pocket at an angle. Or you could cut a similar angle on the heel. Changing the angle would also change the intonation beyond the adjustment range.

[Lonekimono]

I totally understand what you are saying. I just am not sure if I have the confidence or the skills to accomplish this. I guess that I am hoping for a fairly simple way to accomplish it. Without messing it up. 

[Workingman]

From the photo it looks like you have a pretty thick body at the neck joint. so I would be inclined to remove any wood from there.  I would take some measurements, some long paper and mock it up.  Then you would know precisely what to do.

[Lonekimono]

I totally understand what you are saying. I just am not sure if I have the confidence or the skills to accomplish this. I guess that I am hoping for a 

Thanks for the responses. You make it sound so easy lol. 

[Bizman62]

4 hours ago, Lonekimono said:

You make it sound so easy

No, it's not easy at all! I've seen a Crimson Guitars video about the subject and even after hundreds of builds Ben Crowe considered it difficult. If the action is nice and low the extra space under the strings at the pickup area is only about the looks. Actually it helps keeping the body unscratched!

As @Workingman said the body is thick so routing the neck cavity deeper would be the best option. The big question with that is how to support the router. Of course you can do it with a chisel as well, in which case you'd have to be extra careful to keep the bottom level.

The first question though is about your bridge: Are the saddles adjusted to their highest position?

A picture or two of the body might also help. One from the top for a general view and one from the side, if you please.

[Lonekimono]

I totally understand what you are saying. I just am not sure if I have the confidence or the skills to accomplish this. I guess that I am hoping for a 

Thanks for the responses. You make it sound so easy lol. 

Ok i will send some more pictures later this is all I have on my phone 

[gpcustomguitars]

Hi,

what's your current action hight? From the first pic it seems to bee too high over the fretboard. The guitar is carved, just how high are the saddles relative to the flat black surface?

[Lonekimono]

I totally understand what you are saying. I just am not sure if I have the confidence or the skills to accomplish this. I guess that I am hoping for a 

Thanks for the responses. You make it sound so easy lol. 

[Lonekimono]

[Andyjr1515]

Hi and welcome!

Your floyd looks at an OK height and looks level and so presumably you are just wanting to reduce the height of the strings above the fretboard?

That is pretty easy and just needs a thin shim putting at the back of the neck pocket to change very slightly the angle of the neck.

Only tools you will need is a cross-head screwdriver for the neck screws, an allen key for the Floyd height and a pair of scissors.

- First of all, lower your pickups to make sure that when the strings are lower, they don't clash with the pickup top

- Unscrew and take the neck off

- cut a shim - probably needs to be no thicker than an old credit or store card to shape so that it fits across the width of the neck pocket from the dead end to the two rear screw holes.  Use a bit of sellotape so that it doesn't slip and cover the screw holes

- replace the neck and screws - make sure the screws are lined up and following the original threads

- ensure they are all tight.  Tighten a bit like car wheel nuts - diagonals and a bit at a time

- Replace the strings, tune up and check the action height.

- if it is still too high, repeat and put in a second shim

- if it is now too low, either repeat but take the original shim out and cut one from thinner material OR raise the Floyd a touch using the two height adjustment screws (if you do this, detune the strings fully first or the floyd knife edges will cut into the bolts and affect how well it returns to pitch.

It's a bit trial and error, but when the string height is where you want it, then bring the pickup height back to a couple of mm below the strings.

[curtisa]

There's lots of good advice here to help you achieve the desired result. But you haven't actually said why you want the neck lowered deeper into the guitar body. The photo of the string action over the fretboard in your first post doesn't actually look that bad - certainly lowering the neck deeper into the body will make the action even higher, which is probably not what you want to achieve.

If you're wanting lower action (ie, the strings closer to the neck) can you not lower the bridge to achieve the same thing?

 

[Lonekimono]

I want to lower the neck closer to the body. 

[curtisa]

But for what purpose?

Lowering the neck into the body will have ramifications on how the guitar will need to be set up to compensate for the change in relative geometry of the neck, bridge and strings. While there's solid information being provided to you as to how to do it, it's not known what you're wanting to achieve by doing it.

If all you want is the string action a little higher, there are easier, less-destructive ways of doing it that don't result in having to do major surgery to the neck pocket.

If you're bothered by the look of the neck sticking up above the body of the guitar as much as it appears to be, then yes, the neck pocket can be lowered. But you will need to do some corresponding adjustment to compensate for the extra string height that will be introduced by doing so (unless, of course, the extra string height is acceptable for you). This is where the advice from @Andyjr1515 and @Bizman62 regarding angling the neck pocket with shims comes in to play. You'd also need to weigh up if the effort involved in doing so is worth it just to change the appearance of the instrument.

If the heel area feels too chunky due to the neck pocket being too shallow you could always remove material off the back of the body around the heel to make the neck/body transition 'feel' slimmer, but you'd have to refinish the area to restore the look.

Knowing a little more about your requirements will help us provide you with some advice on how best to achieve it. At the moment the suggested fixes (while perfectly valid) seem to be a little like rebuilding a car's suspension system to improve the road handling ability, when all that may be required is a little more air in the tyres.

[Lonekimono]

Thanks everyone for all of your awesome advice. It is definitely not cosmetic. It doesn't feel right. Feels Bulky at the bottom  further away from me. Not very comfortable to play. I definitely want low action. Action is already low.   I hope I'm making sense. 

[curtisa]

Ok, cool. Then your options are either:

• To make the pocket deeper AND introduce some neck tilt to keep the action low - see @Andyjr1515 and @Bizman62's posts above for the general process. The drawback is that it's hard to execute cleanly if you're unfamiliar with the tools and processes involved, but there's less work required in finish repair after the pocket has been re-cut; or,
• Remove material from the back of the heel to get rid of the excess bulk. The upside of this method is that you don't need to change the pocket or setup of the guitar, and you can use whatever hand tools you have at your disposal to thin out the heel. The downside is that you'll need to do significant repainting of the area if you want the re-shaped area look original.

[Bizman62]

4 hours ago, Lonekimono said:

It doesn't feel right. Feels Bulky at the bottom  further away from me. Not very comfortable to play. I definitely want low action. Action is already low. 

Thanks, that was the very piece of information needed!

The body looks pretty thick. As @curtisa said you could remove material from the back without any changes to the setup. Based on the neck which looks factory made that's basically a Strat. A Strat body is 1 3/4" (45mm) thick with a deep belly carve and big forearm bevel to make it comfortable. You can easily go down to 1½", just make sure you leave enough space for the pickup, Floyd and controls. Some 1" should be plenty for the heel area, just make sure that the screws aren't too long. A belly carve alone could help a lot!

 

 

[Lonekimono]

Thanks for all of the information. I feel overwhelmed by this project. Lol. I will make sure I understand what to do before proceeding. So hopefully I don't mess it up Thanks again for everyone's help. 

[Lonekimono]

Thanks for all of the information. I l already have a belly carve in it it really just bulky by the neck feel overwhelmed by this project. Lol. I a I will make sure I understand what to do before proceeding. So hopefully I don't mess it up Thanks again for everyone's help. 

[Bizman62]

Just out of curiosity, is that a one off build or a stock guitar? I mean, I've seen that or a similar one before on some forum.

There's one unmentioned option: If you don't like it, sell it! The looks appeal to some and the hardware seems to be of good quality. Even the fret ends look like the builder knew his basics. So instead of potentially ruining such a piece of art and craftmanship why not find a body to suit the skeleton?

[Lonekimono]

Thanks for all of the information. I l already have a belly carve in it it really just bulky by the neck feel overwhelmed by this project. Lol. I a I will make sure I understand what to do before proceeding. So hopefully I don't mess it up Thanks again for everyone's help. 

Lol no way I wanted this guitar since I was probably 12 years old Lol. I got the body from the boneyard. It was done on cnc machine. I had a guy put it together but he was afraid to cut the neck pocket so that is how it turned out. I wish I knew that. I would have waited to try and fine someone else to do it then. I does make for a very cool wall decor. But I want to be able to play it as well. George Lynch changes 7,k for a custom build. I definitely don't have that kind of cash. I'm trying to save up for a new EVH Wolfgang guitar. That is taking forever lol. 

[Bizman62]

32 minutes ago, Lonekimono said:

I wanted this guitar since I was probably 12 years old

Alright then, it definitely looks cool.

I'd say the builder did a right thing not to cut the neck pocket deeper as the neck now matches with the height of the Floyd. If you cut the pocket deeper you'll have to carve the Floyd area deeper as well by the same amount to keep the action low. The other option would be to carve the bottom of the neck pocket deeper at an angle which would be even trickier. It can be done but it definitely requires some serious skills. Then again, a neck with a break angle is more ergonomic than a straight one. If you're willing to put some money in, letting an experienced repair luthier do it for you might be worth every penny. When you calculate the cost, consider the price of the tools and skills needed. A good router bit easily costs $40, a good chisel as much. And as chisels rarely are sharp enough right off the bat you'd also need a set of sharpening stones for $100 and a sharpening guide plus the skills to use them. If you already don't have all that, getting them might cost the same as the services of a professional - with much less risk!

Edited November 17, 2020 by Bizman62
Added stuff

[Lonekimono]

I did cut down were the floyd rose goes because it was crazy high. You are probably right in taking it to a professional would be the better choice. I just have to find one. Thanks. 

[Bizman62]

Would this help: https://www.google.com/search?b-d&q=pennsylvania+guitar+repair+shop

[Lonekimono]

I will give it a shot. Thanks.