mistermikev Posted November 12, 2021 Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 well... I don't see a question but am happy to help if you don't mind rubbing my nose in it directly! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted November 12, 2021 Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 On 11/10/2021 at 2:35 PM, ScottR said: You all may have noticed that those are Seymour Duncan P-Rails and the Triple Shot rings that are made for them. Each ring has two mini slider switches that allow you choose P-90 or rail single coil or humbucker series or parallel. It still needs setting up, so other than plugging it for a few minutes to verify that everything works, it hasn't been played yet. So I have a question for those of you that are more electronically inclined than I.....which means all of you. What is the difference in series and parallel in terms of pickup wiring, and what sound characteristics should I be able to expect from either? I've always thought I had a vague idea....but when I get right down to it--I don't. Thanks- Scott ok, there it is... so using seymour wire colors... in series you are going in on black, out on white, into second coil on red, then out on green to ground (using in/out for conceptual sake) in parallel you go in on black, out to ground on white. then in parallel your signal is also going in on red and out to ground on green. so in one case the two coils are running from live to ground in parallel, and in series you go in to 1 coil and then into the next coil and then to ground (i know capt obvious i am). if you think of the two coils like a resistors or like speakers. when you combine in series... you add them. so if coil one is 8k and coil 2 is 8k you are essentially getting 16k. for simplification purposes we'll just make the leap that 16k = 16 units of output ie loudness. in parallel you'd get 4K (1/8 + 1/8 = 8k * 8k/8k + 8k) what do they sound like? well series is higher output, more aggressive, typically associated with a humbucker in a les paul for instance. series also loses a bit of the highs... so is a hair darker. parallel is lower output... often described as 'sweeter'... and typically associated with a strat (all stock strats wired in parallel). it has more highs. that's about the best I can describe it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted November 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 2 hours ago, mistermikev said: ok, there it is... so using seymour wire colors... in series you are going in on black, out on white, into second coil on red, then out on green to ground (using in/out for conceptual sake) in parallel you go in on black, out to ground on white. then in parallel your signal is also going in on red and out to ground on green. so in one case the two coils are running from live to ground in parallel, and in series you go in to 1 coil and then into the next coil and then to ground (i know capt obvious i am). if you think of the two coils like a resistors or like speakers. when you combine in series... you add them. so if coil one is 8k and coil 2 is 8k you are essentially getting 16k. for simplification purposes we'll just make the leap that 16k = 16 units of output ie loudness. in parallel you'd get 4K (1/8 + 1/8 = 8k * 8k/8k + 8k) what do they sound like? well series is higher output, more aggressive, typically associated with a humbucker in a les paul for instance. series also loses a bit of the highs... so is a hair darker. parallel is lower output... often described as 'sweeter'... and typically associated with a strat (all stock strats wired in parallel). it has more highs. that's about the best I can describe it. Thank you for for that explanation. I knew the sound would be different, but had no idea it was a function of increased or decreased output. Let's expand on the speaker analogy. Say I have 4 pairs of speakers for one stereo. If I tie all the red wires together and connect to the red terminal and likewise with the black wires, that's parallel? And series would be the first red wire into the terminal, then the black wire connects to the red wire or the next speaker, whose black wire connects to the red of the next until the last black wire goes into the terminal? And that would be louder by far? SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted November 12, 2021 Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 3 hours ago, ScottR said: Thank you for for that explanation. I knew the sound would be different, but had no idea it was a function of increased or decreased output. Let's expand on the speaker analogy. Say I have 4 pairs of speakers for one stereo. If I tie all the red wires together and connect to the red terminal and likewise with the black wires, that's parallel? And series would be the first red wire into the terminal, then the black wire connects to the red wire or the next speaker, whose black wire connects to the red of the next until the last black wire goes into the terminal? And that would be louder by far? SR if you tie all the red together and go to the tip of the jack... then tie all the black together and go to the ground/ring of the jack... yes, that's parallel. and series... yup. that is it. now... oddly with speakers the output part works a little different and this digs into how I "simplified" the analogy for pickups. with speakers running at 4 Ohm vs 16Ohm is less resistant... so 4 is actually louder than 16. With pickups it sort of works the opposite in that a 16k pickup is louder than a 4k pickup. Why is that? well you've found the edge of my knowledge on this subject... i will say that 16k vs 4k doesn't necc mean it's going to be louder as that is only a measurement of the resistance and the actual perceived loudness is influenced by a few other things like freq response. that said... dcr is commonly used to gauge loudness in pickups because in general it is accurate. I hope i didn't do more harm than good right there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted November 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, mistermikev said: if you tie all the red together and go to the tip of the jack... then tie all the black together and go to the ground/ring of the jack... yes, that's parallel. and series... yup. that is it. now... oddly with speakers the output part works a little different and this digs into how I "simplified" the analogy for pickups. with speakers running at 4 Ohm vs 16Ohm is less resistant... so 4 is actually louder than 16. With pickups it sort of works the opposite in that a 16k pickup is louder than a 4k pickup. Why is that? well you've found the edge of my knowledge on this subject... i will say that 16k vs 4k doesn't necc mean it's going to be louder as that is only a measurement of the resistance and the actual perceived loudness is influenced by a few other things like freq response. that said... dcr is commonly used to gauge loudness in pickups because in general it is accurate. I hope i didn't do more harm than good right there! Thanks, that did me a world of good. In my narrow world of pick understanding 16k vs 4k doesn't have to mean louder, but it generally pushes the amp harder and causes earlier breakup, overdrive, distortion and things of that nature. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted November 12, 2021 Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 46 minutes ago, ScottR said: Thanks, that did me a world of good. In my narrow world of pick understanding 16k vs 4k doesn't have to mean louder, but it generally pushes the amp harder and causes earlier breakup, overdrive, distortion and things of that nature. SR i was recently reading about the filtertron pickups... and to my surprise... despite being a 4-5K HUMBUCKER pickup(that's in series)... apparently they are considered one of the loudest pickups. I was like whaaaaa? The article states it has something to do with the very tall narrow footprint of that pickup... and I have tried to ask questions on the pickup mfg groups on facebook to hopefully bite off a piece of understanding... but no luck yet. I have a set from a setzer model... for a future build... now can't wait to try em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ScottR Posted January 20, 2023 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 Wow, It's been a minute since I've been in here. I gave this guitar to my buddy Hook, @Skullsession here, to test drive and he did so and then some! He wrote a song that demoed a number of the sounds this guitar can produce with the P-rails in it, recorded it and hosted it so I could enjoy it and share it with you guys. Thanks James. SR SR 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu. Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 From thick and sleazy rhythm to glassy cleans! Was there something out of phase in the first solo as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted January 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 31 minutes ago, Stu. said: From thick and sleazy rhythm to glassy cleans! Was there something out of phase in the first solo as well? Beats me. That's an @Skullsession question. I do know he was recording through a Kemper, so the possibilities are endless. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 gave a listen, very nice. some really choice guitar playing and wide variety of tones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullsession Posted January 23, 2023 Report Share Posted January 23, 2023 On 1/20/2023 at 12:43 PM, Stu. said: From thick and sleazy rhythm to glassy cleans! Was there something out of phase in the first solo as well? You know...I didn't really pay attention to what parts were in or out of phase. It really was a function of flipping all those crazy switches till I heard something I liked when I was tracking it. This was done over a matter of months, actually. I had a catastrophic system failure right after I finished a bunch of this. Then I was down for a couple month as I built a new computer and demoed new sound interfaces to replace my rig. Honestly, as I recall, almost all of this track was recorded with the pickup selector not in the bridge pickup position. I'm certain that first solo was in the bridge position because I reached over and put it there while Mike was fiddling around. But I wasn't holding the guitar, and I have no idea what Mike had done with the switches on the pickups. I'm not much help, eh? It's a fun guitar to play, as all of Scott's guitars are. I would have told you that it probably wouldn't by my first-call if I were to actually have it in my own collection, based completely on sound. But when I listen back to the tones it delivers, I'm probably in the wrong for thinking that. It definitely has particular sonics that my other guitars don't. Scott is a blues lover...and I suspect a blues player would make this thing sing in ways that my playing won't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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