need help with key change

[weezerboy]

hey

i just realised that the piece i'm working on, must have a key change in it..and tips would be greatly appreciated

heres the piece so far...and yes it sucks, but i didn't choose it

here

thanks

-dan-

[El Dangerouso]

I doubt it has a key change. Do you have the chord progression, or would I have to transcribe it AND figure out the key/tonality?

[weezerboy]

it doesn't have the key change yet, its in Ebmajor from what i have to remember

and i have to have that, then a key change, then back to the original, which adds up to around 36bars which is what the specification is

[Reaper]

it doesn't have the key change yet, its in Ebmajor from what i have to remember

and i have to have that, then a key change, then back to the original, which adds up to around 36bars which is what the specification is

Generally, key changes follow the circle of fifths, either adding or subtracting a single sharp (or flat, depending on how you think about it). So if you're in Eb (3 flats), you'd go to either Bb (2 flats), or Ab (four flats).

[wylde1919]

can you right out the progression (im at work and cant listen to the song itself), If so I can give you a few suggestions on what would sound "standard practice" and maybe some that are outside of the box!

[weezerboy]

if this is no use , then let me know, and i know its full of errors but its the best i could get in the short amount of time i took/have

[Reaper]

Just a tip: you could probably throw that fourth staff into the bass clef, and save yourself a few ledger lines. Also, you could throw your Eb into the key signature, so you don't have to write out all the flats.

[weezerboy]

i wrote nothing out, i just hit "make score" in cubase, just for a quick example

thanks for the pointers though

[Reaper]

i wrote nothing out, i just hit "make score" in cubase, just for a quick example

Ah... that would explain it.

[wylde1919]

Umm if I am reading you notation correctly, you don;t seem to to have a pattern to your progression. You stay in key however. If you wanted to modulate ( which is what I think is what you mean when you say key change, if you wanted to litterally take the existing notes and put them into a different key then just correct me) you could always go from that final implied A chord to and A7 then to a Bb7 and resolve the piece on an Eb or an Eb6 for a bit more spice. The A7 will give you your required key change if only ofr a moment (V of V to the V very bebop!) If you don;t liek that let me know I'll think on it for a moment

[weezerboy]

ok..you are 100% on the right tracks

but is there any chance that you can break it down so a fool like me can understand it?

[wylde1919]

ok..you are 100% on the right tracks

but is there any chance that you can break it down so a fool like me can understand it?

A fool isn't someone who doesn't know, but rather someone who doesn't know and refuses to learn anyway.

My theory was bit off on my sugestion (A7 is not the five chord of Bb7) so I m going to change that first chord I suggested. play an F7, use the A in the bass and put an F and an Eb above it. Then go to Bb7 and then to the Eb. If you wanted to make a "hard change" to a different key then you could always go to a Bb instead of a Bb 7. You could follow up with any chords you desire within the key of Bb (Bb, Cm, Dm, Eb, F or F7, Gmin, or C dim). Does that make sense? Also did you wirte this piece so far? and is this a school assignment? Also if you wrote the peice would you up for some constructive criticism?

[jbkim]

You could follow up with any chords you desire within the key of Bb (Bb, Cm, Dm, Eb, F or F7, Gmin, or C dim). Does that make sense?

A half-dim (A min7 b5) instead of that C dim if you're being diatonic (C dim has a Gb which isn't in the key of Bb.) Everything else makes sense.

[weezerboy]

thanks ..thats sufficient breaking down for me

i appreciate it

and no, its my own arrangement of an old folk tune called "hanging johnny" and the melody is the original ,and i know it sucks - but sure, criticism is always good..bring it on

[wylde1919]

Cool, the "criticsim" I had in mind was in the voice leading. If you were actually playing this piece you may find some of the intervals to be a little challenging. Whenever I arrange a paice, I try to do it two chords at a time. Take your first two chords, In your case Cm7 and Eb maj7 are the two chords I fell are implied. Take the notes from each chord (C-Eb-G-Bb) (Eb-G-Bb-D) and sinngle out all the notes that are the same. you'll notice that only the C an D are different meaning this chord change is going to be a breaze. So when the Cm7 chord changes on the "and of one" to the Eb maj 7 you only have to move one note. It appears that most of your wide intervals are intentional though. Lots of ocatves. The only other thing I would keep in mind is to make sure for each chord change you have at least the root and the third of the chord included (I.e for a c chord the c and the e, or for a Bb the Bd and the d), It will make the tonality much clearer. And as a final note music doesn't have any real rules, just guidelines feel fre to ignore any or all of my suggestions in order to meet your artistic desire.

[wylde1919]

sorry to double post but good catch on my 2nd theory flub of the post nyjbkim! I obviously need to slow down a bit and think. I guess I shouldn't be trying to give theory tips while I'm supposed to be working! hehe

[jbkim]

No problem . I should be working too .

[westhemann]

nyjbkim...i wish i had your understanding of theory...all i got was good looks and a brilliant mind

and modesty

[jbkim]

nyjbkim...i wish i had your understanding of theory...all i got was good looks and a brilliant mind

and modesty

Heh, I guess I understand theory because it's so much like math... but I still suck on guitar .

My mom tells me I'm good looking and smart .

[westhemann]

moms know best

[shredboy]

Very simple. And no, a key change does not have to follow athe circle of fifths... Decide what key you would like to transition to, then find a chord that is relative to both and use it as a pivot point. If there aren't many options, you can sharpen or flatten 3rds or suspend 3rds all together in such chords to make it work. Remember to play these alterations if there is any melody/harmony over top.

[Otter]

A very emotional tune #starts to cry# when are you releasing the album?