Warning About Ebay Fretboards

[Mickguard]

I decided to give a heads up on this Ebay seller.

When I was gearing up for my first neck build, I thought it'd be easier to buy a prefretted neck. This guy is one of the only ones selling those--I'm not a big fan of the inlays, but still.

First the positive: the seller refunded my money very promptly, without argument. I had to swallow the shipping though, but that wasn't much.

Now for the problems:

At first, I thought they were merely cosmetic-- the inlays were out of line, and worse, very sloppy --in some frets, there's more filler than inlay!

They also screwed up the side dots---they're all over the place. Worse, they added a dot at the 23rd fret, instead of the 24th.

But I could live with the cosmetic issues, since I was still getting a shortcut on the neck build.

Except there are some structural problems. First off, the frets are not even close to level--they're really all over the place. Okay, that's why I bought that fret leveler, I figured.

Except a couple of the frets are loose at the ends, so I'd have to glue those down. And by the time I got done leveling the frets, they were all pretty low--a lot lower than I like to play with.

What I didn't think to do was to verify that the frets were properly spaced---as it turns out, the first fret is more than a millimeter too narrow (i.e., the edge for the nut is too close to the first fret)--I'm guessing that screws up all the rest of the scale length, but I didn't bother to measure all the others.

Which pretty much puts the kibosh on this thing.

I did toy with the idea of replacing the frets--except when I removed the frets, I discovered that the tang wasn't a standard size (.023). They're much much wider. Meaning I'd have to order out for new frets, assuming I can find them in this size, since the fret slots are way too wide.

Another thing I didn't like: the seller claims to be in Taiwan. But the package arrived from Vietnam.

Anyway, just a heads up. Maybe my board was a fluke, maybe everything else they sell turns out okay.

[Mattia]

Well, you get what you pay for, I guess...I've heard some very 'so so quality' stories re: the pearl material, but the prices are still pretty decent overall. Still, I'll stick with Australian MOP Supplies and the like. Main issue I see with a pre-fretted board being transported is that it'll flex, move a little, and the frets WILL unseat unless they're all glued in, which is hardly standard practice. Add the fact you have no clue what humidity the wood was at when it was slotted, processed, fretted, etc., no clue what the humidity in the shop was, and a fairly thin hunk of wood (doubly so if it's ebony), and you're in for (potentially) a nasty ride. Fret levelness really cannot be guaranteed in any way whatsoever, and you should only ever level frets AFTER gluing everything down on the neck.

As for location, there are a lot of cheap (but good) pearl cutters in Vietnam; order from DePaule Supply in the US, and you're likely to get any custom cut inlays shipped directly to your door from....Vietnam.

Thing is, your major complaint is probably the most minor one: many, many people (including, say, Taylor guitars, and moi) shave 1 to almost 2mm off the nut end of the first fret. Reason: better intonation. That whole compensated nut thing Buzz Feiten tries to pretend he invented, but builders have been doing for decades and decades. So, no, that really doesn't screw up your scale length at all.

[fryovanni]

Yup, Pretty much what Mattia said. Andy's stuff is processed and cut in Vietnam. You do have Andy inspecting the bits though, and he is not one to sell sub par anything.

Peace,Rich

[bentwood999]

Dime store crap (they sell)

[rhoads56]

<sacrasm>

Mick, i dont see what your problem is buddy. Litchfield used these fretboards and reckons they are the shiznit. Damn, he even half built a guitar for the Donnas as a 'gift' with one of these amazing boards. Dude, your standards are too high!! Get lower!

</sarcasm>

[Rick500]

<sacrasm>

Mick, i dont see what your problem is buddy. Litchfield used these fretboards and reckons they are the shiznit. Damn, he even half built a guitar for the Donnas as a 'gift' with one of these amazing boards. Dude, your standards are too high!! Get lower!

</sarcasm>

I wasn't around at the time, but I read the whole saga a couple months ago. Wow. Just, wow.

[Jon]

I've heard nothing but negative things about this guy for years. If you want real quality inlay work, contact Doug of parable guitars.

[Mickguard]

<sacrasm>

Mick, i dont see what your problem is buddy. Litchfield used these fretboards and reckons they are the shiznit. Damn, he even half built a guitar for the Donnas as a 'gift' with one of these amazing boards. Dude, your standards are too high!! Get lower!

</sarcasm>

Yeah, well it's partly your fault, you know. Every time I see one of your guitars, I think: "Heck, I can do better than that" ( like that'll ever happen )

Anyway, for what it's worth (and to respond to the implication that somehow the shoddy quality of this board was my fault): I allowed the board to acclimate a good six months before gluing it to my neck blank (two-piece with reversed grain, reinforced with carbon rods and the truss rod, then planed using a professional planer). I then let that sit in a controlled, low-humidity environment for a couple of months before carving the neck. The board glued down perfectly flat--at least it had that much going for it! I couldn't figure out how to check if the board itself was level--I believe there was some drop off at the end, which is acceptable (although, that's a 'feature' I should be allowed to choose for myself. But since it already had the frets installed, I could only check the level of the frets. Like I said, I knew there'd be some leveling necessary, I just didn't think it would that bad.

And as for the intonation thing... Don't try to pass this off as a feature--it's a clear mistake (otherwise he should advertise this 'feature'). Besides, the spacing had nothing to do with any nut intonation system I've read about. I went back and measured more of the frets, and there's a lot of variability (at least when checking them against the measurements given by Stewmac's fret calculator).

I'm willing to accept that some of you have a positive relationship with this seller. But I'm going to assume that you deal with him for the inlays themselves, not products like these fretboards, or the guitars and whatever else he's selling. The inlays appeared to be good quality--I was surprised to see how thick they were, I was expecting ultra-thin crap.

But if this fretboard is any indication of the quality of the rest of this work, then I think people should be warned. And if it's true that this is what Litchfield had been using....well, someone should have warned ME!

The most important thing though is that this fretboard helped me get past the hump of building a neck--so it was worth the price and hassle for that. My first full neck build--completed shortly after--came out great.

[MikeB]

haha! good laugh there, cheers rhoades for the reminder! man, the guy made some ugly-ass things!

Mike

[rhoads56]

haha! good laugh there, cheers rhoades for the reminder! man, the guy made some ugly-ass things!

Mike

Ugly ass?? No, the official term we designated was 'Stabbed Poo'.

[westhemann]

Ugly ass?? No, the official term we designated was 'Stabbed Poo'.

I don't want to get into a debate here,or perpetuate a revival of the distant past,but I now realize how ahead of his time "the nameless one" was...

you see,I just got a visit from my future self(yes,I am still great looking in 2032)...he bought a Nintendo Timecube(that is what they call the time machines they will market starting in 2030) and he(I mean futuremii)tells me that in his(my?) time that ALL of the major guitar manufacturers are inlaying pieces of square veneer straight to the bodies of their flying vees...they call it " the litch factor" and it became very popular after wood became endangered,since it adds a "woodiness" to the carbon fibre guitars of the future...it is very sought after,I assure myself.

interestingly enough...the ones with Imbuia as the main wood used in these veneer inlays are considered "collestor's items" and all have the serial #"1"

[fryovanni]

Mick,

I don't think anyone would defend a poor quality product, although you know that with the price of the materials used to make a quality pearl inlayed fretboard, hours of labor to cut and inlay the material, slotting and so forth. You are paying a labor rate that is so low that you can not expect it to be done by a top notch artist, and given the low wage they would have to rush to get as many done as possible to be able to make enough to eat that night. It is hard to take complaints too seriously about "quality" or "quality control" when they refunded your cash. If you recieve a board from Craig Lavin and it has flaws then you have ground to stand on, of course the odds he would let that out the door are pretty much zero.

Mattia IS correct about the nut position. Many people use modified scales that are not just straight up root of 2. I have no idea what they use for fret positions or if the scale is modified. You also mentioned the other slots are off. I dunno, it sounds like you had high expectations and the board did not meet your standards. I suggest next time you try to buy a very expensive pre-inlayed fretboard. You go to one of the experienced inlay artists, a dealer with a great reputaion that will inspect each piece(like Andy Depaule), or a company that specializes in CNC inlay work(and choose a standard design). Then again if you want you could do the work yourself.

Peace,Rich

P.S. As far as recieving a board from Vietnam. That is where some of the best shell you can get comes from.

[Mattia]

I'm not trying to pass it off as a feature, just explaining that it might've come from a slotting template (like, say, Stewmac's, which I think has some slight nut-end adjustment for at least some of the scales, but I can go check if you'd like me to) and/or he simply copied it off some factory guitar.

I'm also not blaming you for anything, just, well, putting some more weight behind your (completely right-headed) warning against getting anything wood-like from this guy.

[Rick500]

Some of his eBay listings are funny. What the heck is "solidwood?" Never heard of it.

[Prostheta]

As opposed to inflatawood?

[Mickguard]

I don't think anyone would defend a poor quality product, although you know that with the price of the materials used to make a quality pearl inlayed fretboard,

Oh sure, I didn't have my hopes up that much when I bought it --I was only hoping it'd be useable. Turns out it wasn't. Like I said, the real reason I bought it was because I had cold feet about going ahead with the neck build (I'd already screwed up my first attempt at preparing a fretboard). But once I started working with this board, especially having to trim and bevel those razor sharp fret ends, I realized that fretting wasn't going to be so difficult after all.

And of course the reason I posted about this here was in case someone else in my situation gets tempted to buy a board from this guy--it's really not worth it at all.

And yeah, I've since become more sensitive to issues such as labor exploitation, etc.

Anyway, I've since planed off that fretboard (I left a thin strip of it as a reminder) and I've fitted a new fretboard to it. Which might actually end up working out...and at least this one will be all 'mine'.

[WezV]

Some of his eBay listings are funny. What the heck is "solidwood?" Never heard of it.

solidwood is the stuff the rest of us are using to make guitars - what the hell are you using?

[Rick500]

[Bobby]

I don't think anyone would defend a poor quality product, although you know that with the price of the materials used to make a quality pearl inlayed fretboard,

Oh sure, I didn't have my hopes up that much when I bought it --I was only hoping it'd be useable. Turns out it wasn't. Like I said, the real reason I bought it was because I had cold feet about going ahead with the neck build (I'd already screwed up my first attempt at preparing a fretboard). But once I started working with this board, especially having to trim and bevel those razor sharp fret ends, I realized that fretting wasn't going to be so difficult after all.

And of course the reason I posted about this here was in case someone else in my situation gets tempted to buy a board from this guy--it's really not worth it at all.

And yeah, I've since become more sensitive to issues such as labor exploitation, etc.

Anyway, I've since planed off that fretboard (I left a thin strip of it as a reminder) and I've fitted a new fretboard to it. Which might actually end up working out...and at least this one will be all 'mine'.

Think thats the key man, I mean 65 odd negatives in the past 12 months alone, you always knew it was going to be a bit of a gamble, but like you say, you didnt want something fit for the Zsar, just something to muck around with.....but came up craps on the roll

[MidnightLamp]

Avoid this crap too. Same crap, different name.

http://stores.ebay.com/Bruceweiart-Musical-Instrument-Shop

I had every problem listed along with a whole slew of others including: the spacing for the top 3 frets reversed (so 22-24 gradually getting bigger...)), many chips all over the bottom and sides of the neck, a twisted fretboard (warped along the width, not the length), and inlay so thin that in soem places the 'albalone' had just rubbed off. I only wasted $25 (won the auction with no other bids), but just wanted to warn anyone else, so they don't waste that too.