Drak, The Afterburner

[Woodenspoke]

An interesting technique. Just seems a bit heavy handed for such a thick piece of wood.

I would have used a heating blanket and lots of water so it would steam out and soften before I clamped it down (yes you dont have one). Or a hand held clothes iron also set on high using lots of water. Lots of water meaning enough to create steam and soften the fibers. Probably an easier method would have been a steam box using an electric kettle like the one sold by Lee Valley

But who am I to tell the master?

[Drak]

Black Epoxy Pore Filling.

[RestorationAD]

Have fun sanding that off!

[avengers63]

yep - that's covered in black goop alright!

[zyonsdream]

BC Rich did the same thing with their Platinum series guitars. It was brownish and godawful to get off. I actually never got it off. I go tired of sanding and just painted over the stuff.

[pmarlin]

I am sure this aint Draks first rodeo

[Drak]

Well, if'n I was hand-sanding it off I rekon it wudda taken me quite a gol-darned spell.

Who the gol blazes would hand sand off a thick, black viscous layer of epoxy?

I used 320 grit sandpaper on my orbital sander to give me time and control (slow and careful removal) until I could see wood pretty much throughout, then switched to a cabinet scraper and was done in about 10 additional minutes.

The scraper made extremely quick work of the epoxy, leaving me a very nice flat and filled Paduak topster.

I don't think I even broke a sweat.

[Drak]

You know, even though the top is black-filled and all like that and that is sooo nifty-fifty, this top just isn't cutting it for me.

It's not jazzin' me nearly as much as I need to feel to move forward with it, but the tap-tone of the Mahogany Core body is Soooo good, I won't toss this one, it's going to have a Great Tone, it's plain to hear, it just has a not-so-great top right now.

I need to do something different with it...maybe a Gold Top or something....

[Muzz]

Well, if'n I was hand-sanding it off I rekon it wudda taken me quite a gol-darned spell.

Who the gol blazes would hand sand off a thick, black viscous layer of epoxy?

I used 320 grit sandpaper on my orbital sander to give me time and control (slow and careful removal) until I could see wood pretty much throughout, then switched to a cabinet scraper and was done in about 10 additional minutes.

The scraper made extremely quick work of the epoxy, leaving me a very nice flat and filled Paduak topster.

I don't think I even broke a sweat.

Looks like a good and time efficient technique to me, it should bring the body in really flat ready for the clear coats, very similar to what I did with two pack recently. Lotsa different ways of doing stuff

[Drak]

Yup, there's little that can compete with a sharp cabinet scraper in the right situation, and this was one of them, it was effortless, the epoxy peeled away like no more than dead skin and the top is perfectly flat, clean, and filled.

I obviously had the option of scraping the excess away before it dried, and, with scraper in hand and epoxy still wet, decided to just leave it on there thick so I knew I would get it filled 100% the first time.

The whole removal process took no more than 20 minutes start to finish, except maybe a few extra minutes finessing the rounded edges.

I still don't like the top much tho, and am at a conundrum what to do as I typically don't like solid finishes, but that situation will push me to come up with some creative answer sooner or later.

[RestorationAD]

Drak ... what did you use to make the Epoxy black?

[Drak]

Drak ... what did you use to make the Epoxy black?

Tint's All (Lamp Black), costs about $2.00 a tube. It's a pigment, not a dye.

Also, if using it, use as little as possible needed, as overusing the product will make the epoxy weaker in the long run.

I also use it (it comes in lots of colors) for toner coats in lacquer to darken up edge bursts, but it will weaken 2-part epoxy if too much is added and makes the epoxy more like rubber if your ratio is too much.

In small moderate amounts, works perfect to color epoxy.

Actually, I just found this out last year, if you go to Home Depot, look closely at their custom color dispenser machines for interior and exterior paint, they use Tint's All too!

Years ago I use to get it from artistic supply houses, but now just get it from Home Depot although a single tube of that stuff can last several years.

As well, to thin down the epoxy a little so it would really seep into the pores, I added a tiny bit of Acetone, which thins it and retards the drying time a little too.

[avengers63]

How about a pic so we can all share your hate for the top?

[Drak]

Give me a day or two John, I'm probably going to throw a clear coat on it before I officially hate it, but have switched to some other guitars today.

I have some others that are coming down the home stretch very nearly done that are getting my attention at the moment.

I'll probably shoot one clear coat on it before deciding, and I can take that off just as easy, and you can see a pic of it with some finish on it...maybe it's OK, we'll see.

[avengers63]

Wise move. We all know that things don't really come to life until the clear is on. Even if you still don't like it immediately, I'd still advise letting it sit in the corner for a while. Maybe it'll grow on you. Or maybe... just maybe... you'd break down and paint it. You already noted that it should sound great, so it'd be a shame to send it off.

[Drak]

For better or worse, here's a few shots of it as it sits.

I tried to wet it w/ some lac thinner, but it just dries immediately, so it is what it is for the moment.

At least people can see black filled Paduak pores, although it obviously pops to life with solvent or finish.

[kpcrash]

I kinda like it. Plus, by the time it's all routed out/hardware added, will look completely different.

[Drak]

I agree, and it looks much nicer under solvent/finish, but the filled grains showing where I did the bend pretty much disqualifies it in my book as something I'd want to keep around.

It just makes me be more creative to find a way to adapt and overcome the issues that always seem to arise, things like that are what makes us better ourselves as builders.

Normally, I'd toss it at this point, but the body wood has such a nice thick resonant tone to it that it's worth re-claiming somehow.

It'll pop back up one day.

[Muzz]

This would look cool stained deep red with some, retro looking pups, chrome and black plastic pickguard.

[Mors Phagist]

Normally, I'd toss it at this point, but the body wood has such a nice thick resonant tone to it that it's worth re-claiming somehow.

Why toss it? All is not lost.

I thought the top looked nice.

[sam_c]

Function before form isnt it? I wouldnt care if it was really butt ugly, if it plays well and sounds better than the exact same guitar with a nicer top Id pick this one anyday.

But, if youre in no rush and this one is a keeper then I suppose there is nothing to stop you taking the time to get it looking how you want it to.

[Wademeister]

Upon doing some final sanding and giving it a quick wet-up-look-see-what-we-got, we're back to edge-burst.

I think that's the key Drak! cover the whole dropped area as part of your burst and I think you'll have it.

[Drak]

Function before form isnt it?

I wouldnt care if it was really butt ugly, if it plays well and sounds better than the exact same guitar with a nicer top Id pick this one anyday.

Yes, that's the deal. The body has a really great tone to it, so it's not going anywhere, it'll get finished.

The weight is right, the tone is right, the body is right, the combination of woods is right...it's a definite keeper.

But...sometimes it takes me several months or even years for the right idea to hit me, so I'm never in a hurry, the right choice will show up when it's ready, and I always have more guitars to work on until it's ready to show itself.

I have some ideas already...you'll be surprised...

[WezV]

Upon doing some final sanding and giving it a quick wet-up-look-see-what-we-got, we're back to edge-burst.

I think that's the key Drak! cover the whole dropped area as part of your burst and I think you'll have it.

thats what is done on cheap strat copies to hide the laminated construction... which always makes it look really cheap to me when done on other things - even on very expensive guitars

[Drak]

I basically agree, I don't think I was going to burst it anyway, but bursting that much of the body I don't think would be one of my options, I would probably gold-top or something it if it came to that kind of decision.

But lets talk about it for a minute, as this is a perfect example of what I have always maintained makes good builders, is taking a mistake or a snafu and not trying to necessarily 'hide' it, but find another alternative that pushes you into a growth area, to come up with an idea that isn't a cover-up, but when it's done, covers the problem in a way that is superior to what you would have done in the first place...and is something you would not have done in the first place...which takes time for the mind to analyze and formulate, because growth pushes you into uncharted waters if done right, which is what I'm doing with this one, and simply takes time to come up with a great alternative to just hiding a problem.

Sometimes it works great, sometimes not, but I'm never tied to a successful result (finished guitar), only tied to pushing myself into areas I want to explore, which to me is successful (creative growth). And sometimes I need a good kick in the ass in areas where I'm slacking, so this is nothing more than a growth opportunity, which I always look forward to.

BTW, I've got several guitars I'm working on that are coming out monster good right now, I'm just not posting about them at the moment, so this one can rest comfortably for the time being, it's turn will come back around again soon enough without having to force the answer too soon.

That's the beauty of multi-builds, you can let some rest when they need to rest until it's their time to shine in the sun again, I'm certainly not in any hurry to finish a guitar much anymore, the fun is IN the building, I already have plenty of finished guitars to play.