SG Guitar Kit Build Video Series

[curtisa]

Wow, that's a blast from the past! Good to see you're still plugging away at it

I think @Norris has a new challenger in the "slowly but surely" race

 

[Norris]

58 minutes ago, curtisa said:

I think @Norris has a new challenger in the "slowly but surely" race

At least I give regular updates, even if nothing much is going on

[curtisa]

It's not the quantity of updates, but the quality that counts

Sorry, @M3521. The quantity of the thread derailments is what we're best known for around here.

[M3521]

11 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Very cool. How's the quality of the kit? 

Not great. The neck fit is too loose, the neck angle was too extreme. It's requiring a lot of modifications. But my goal was to learn about measurements and adjustments so it's fitting the need for me. If I wanted to just build a kit I would have spent more money on something better quality.

[Prostheta]

That's pretty much to be expected. Unlike made-by-each guitars, these necks and bodies are manufactured on completely separate processes, boxed up as parts from bins as you'd imagine. Kits are nice in getting your feet wet in all kinds of ways, flexing skills at various points down the entire line. Fixing an incorrect neck angle is getting more towards the waist-deep end of the pool, so I'm sure that "measurements and adjustments" is just a case of understatement!

[Andyjr1515]

Welcome back, Megan!

I was wondering when the next video was going to hit the boards

Like in the first videos, I am impressed at the detail you go into - the what and the why.  Also, you are open about things you would do different next time, such as the headstock support while jig-sawing.

I think also the approach of showing an edited video and overdubbing the dialogue is a very efficient way of showing what you are doing and why.  One of the clearest of such videos I've seen in a long time.  And compressing 4 years work into 10 minutes of video is more than impressive  

I look forward to Episode 5

[M3521]

Still alive! This one was the most fun yet, carving the contours into the body.

 

[Prostheta]

Very very nice! When I built our SG, a lot of time was spend in those contours as well. Smaller sanding sticks and blocks run along the contours better than across them which tends to blend out the high spots and identify the low ones. Did you spend much time figuring out what type of horn tip contouring to use? That's a real SG enthusiast (I am not one of these) sticking point. Much the same as how closely the contour reaches in to the neck either side. Ultimately I think it's more a case of how sharp one wants to contour the body that develops the look. My objective was to bring everything out as a constantly moving chamfer at a specific perpendicular angle with respect to the body, as this seems how Gibson originally shaped the bodies. From there it was simply blending out the sharp edges to taste.

I hate to say this - and I know you went into this knowing that a kit guitar is just kit guitar - but it seems a shame to marry that neck up to the body now....especially given the fit and tolerances.

Well, if you take up the challenge of a scratch build after this one, I'll be subbed!

[M3521]

9 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Very very nice! When I built our SG, a lot of time was spend in those contours as well. Smaller sanding sticks and blocks run along the contours better than across them which tends to blend out the high spots and identify the low ones. Did you spend much time figuring out what type of horn tip contouring to use? That's a real SG enthusiast (I am not one of these) sticking point. Much the same as how closely the contour reaches in to the neck either side. Ultimately I think it's more a case of how sharp one wants to contour the body that develops the look. My objective was to bring everything out as a constantly moving chamfer at a specific perpendicular angle with respect to the body, as this seems how Gibson originally shaped the bodies. From there it was simply blending out the sharp edges to taste.

I hate to say this - and I know you went into this knowing that a kit guitar is just kit guitar - but it seems a shame to marry that neck up to the body now....especially given the fit and tolerances.

Well, if you take up the challenge of a scratch build after this one, I'll be subbed!

I spent enough time researching the horns to identify that I was at risk of analysis paralysis and then stopped looking for my own sanity. I wasn't too precious about it, but tried for the deepest horn I could muster without getting too close to the pickguard. I didn't want the contour to dip below the pickguard on that side.

I did think about getting a nicer neck, but I think there is an issue with the gap in the body being too wide that would still be a problem. I'm also fairly sure I'm going to do an imperfect job on the paint since I've never done it before, so better to resist the urge to upgrade everything.

[Bizman62]

Despite never having been a fan for SG's  I must say that the contours really made a difference! Out of the pretty dull silhouette you carved tempting curves and sharp edges. Very nice!

My go-to tool for fine tuning the edges would have been a cabinet scraper, ever tried one of those?

[M3521]

20 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Despite never having been a fan for SG's  I must say that the contours really made a difference! Out of the pretty dull silhouette you carved tempting curves and sharp edges. Very nice!

My go-to tool for fine tuning the edges would have been a cabinet scraper, ever tried one of those?

I haven't. I don't have one but I've seen videos of them being used. Super handy tool. I might grab one and do some fine tuning before I do the final paint prep. Good suggestion!

[Prostheta]

They have a bit of a learning curve, especially until the point where you know whether a scraper is sharp or not. There's a degree of feel to be developed, but once you're past that they're indispensable. 

[Bizman62]

For the record I've seen two ways of sharpening them. The most common way is to file the edge to 90 deg and then burnish a tiny lip on either side. But I've also seen them sharpened like a knife! At first it may sound so very wrong but after giving it some thought it would be similar to a single edge razor blade which are widely used as scrapers. The first method is much more economic, though, as it allows for all edges to be sharpened so a rectangular one can have as many as eight sharpened edges versus the single one sharpened like a knife. Also, as the scraping edge tends to heat up a multi-edge scraper can be turned upside down to let the edge cool down. A hot blade gets dull very fast.

[M3521]

New video day! Big mental hurdle to get this one out as I was afraid to screw it up.

Episode 6: Gluing the Set Neck

 

[Prostheta]

Great seeing you back! It's looking good, and it's always a positive reinforcement to get sound out of a build.

I'm watching the video as I type this, so I hope you've not yet filled that gap in the neck. If you have the opportunity to do so, shim it with a sliver of wood. I'm sure that the wood glue already added will complicate this of course, as the internal gluing surfaces will be sealed by the existing glue making additional adhesion a magnitude less strong.

The SG design has very little sidewall support as it stands, and the last thing needed at this stage is any funny business happening in the pocket. Wood putty has zero structural strength for shoring up these gaps, so it's worthwhile providing that joint the best stability it can get. In the playing position, the neck has a degree of twisting force in the pocket and if you're the sort of player that uses the natural flex of the guitar to induce vibrato, this will more than likely become a problem.

If you have the confidence to do so, I'd suggest sliding a saw into the joint to both open and clean it out for a shim. It's risky though as you would expect, especially if the saw teeth scratch up the neck as they run parallel to it. Perhaps the most usable option would be to inject the gap with a hard setting epoxy (not epoxy glue) such as West System (105?) or similar. It's great for gap filling and provides the best support as a simple fix.

It's already a far better instrument than those kit makers intended it to be. Your structured and planned approach makes all the the difference....I've seen overly-enthusiastic learners blow hundreds on expensive exotics and end up with a poor end result, or just trashing the lot. Being able to make a good instrument from basic materials - kit starter or not - is far more impressive.

Stay safe!

[M3521]

7 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Great seeing you back! It's looking good, and it's always a positive reinforcement to get sound out of a build.

I'm watching the video as I type this, so I hope you've not yet filled that gap in the neck. If you have the opportunity to do so, shim it with a sliver of wood. I'm sure that the wood glue already added will complicate this of course, as the internal gluing surfaces will be sealed by the existing glue making additional adhesion a magnitude less strong.

The SG design has very little sidewall support as it stands, and the last thing needed at this stage is any funny business happening in the pocket. Wood putty has zero structural strength for shoring up these gaps, so it's worthwhile providing that joint the best stability it can get. In the playing position, the neck has a degree of twisting force in the pocket and if you're the sort of player that uses the natural flex of the guitar to induce vibrato, this will more than likely become a problem.

If you have the confidence to do so, I'd suggest sliding a saw into the joint to both open and clean it out for a shim. It's risky though as you would expect, especially if the saw teeth scratch up the neck as they run parallel to it. Perhaps the most usable option would be to inject the gap with a hard setting epoxy (not epoxy glue) such as West System (105?) or similar. It's great for gap filling and provides the best support as a simple fix.

It's already a far better instrument than those kit makers intended it to be. Your structured and planned approach makes all the the difference....I've seen overly-enthusiastic learners blow hundreds on expensive exotics and end up with a poor end result, or just trashing the lot. Being able to make a good instrument from basic materials - kit starter or not - is far more impressive.

Stay safe!

What would you recommend for a shim? I have some mahogany veneer that might work but it doesn't seem like it would add much structural integrity either. I have a flush cut saw that nearly fits in the gap, but that would make it worse before it got better. I'm need something thicker than the veneer at that point.

[Prostheta]

If you are painting solid over the top, Maple is easier. Otherwise, stick with the same material. Usually whatever you have to hand is best, to use an old maxim. Veneer is still wood, but that would need pushing in the direction of the grain from the neck so it doesn't fold up and crack. Maintain the same grain direction as the body. 

At this stage, anything is better than putty. The flush cut saw might work if there is no set to the teeth, and you wrap tape over the teeth and on the neck. Not so much that the thickness deflects the blade, but enough to protect. Given your patience and success thus far, I think you'll get it right with forethought. It's always the way forward! 

[M3521]

@Prostheta, I do plan to paint. I'm thinking through how I would create such a thin maple shim. At that width, it might be easier to shave the end off a 2x4 sized board with a mitre saw to fit in the gap and then cut away the excess. Is there a better way you know of?

[Prostheta]

I can think of a few ways, but all come down to what tools are on hand. Cutting a slice sounds good, and it can always be dressed down to the right thickness and/or taper using sandpaper taped to a flat surface. When you say 2x4....I'm hoping that's from a hardwood rather than say, Pine/Fir, etc? Those would still beat putty, hands down, however a matching hardwood is the gold standard. If you simply don't have a piece on hand and you can't get ahold of a piece of constructional veneer (the thicker stuff) I'm certain another stateside PG member might be able to help out.

[M3521]

@Prostheta, I have some scrap mahogany (I think, it's a hard dark wood) that I think I can make work. I'll give it a shot and let you know how it goes.

[Prostheta]

Sounds like a plan! 

[Andyjr1515]

Great progress, @M3521  The first strum of a guitar that you've built yourself is a source great satisfaction

 

[M3521]

I’m on to the rabbit hole of finishing! This year, Chicago Music Exchange did some custom SG builds and this one caught my eye. It’s unconventional and I think it looks really sharp. It’s my goal for the paint finish.

I’m torn between priorities on this. Of course I want a beautiful finish.  I don’t particularly care for the natural aging of nitrocellulose which seems to be the builder’s choice. I was pretty committed to using Dupli color, but after looking further, they only sell the color I like in their acrylic enamel series not the non acrylic. From what I understand, enamel can be rough to work with. I looked at getting my own dyed paint at the auto supply shop but spending $150+ on a kit guitar feels like too much. I don’t have finishing experience so I’m trying to keep it simple as well.

I have half a mind to try a rustoleum spray can finish with a hard clear coat like Spraymax 2k. Prioritize the best value and doing my personal best on a budget. But I do feel like I’m generally investing enough to make this nicer than a typical kit. Anyone have thoughts around this? Options that are similar difficulty but better quality?

 

 

 

 

[Prostheta]

Generally acrylics are unsatisfactory as they take forever to cure, stay soft and aren't  durable. Rattlecans push more solvent than product because of the format. Enamel....yeah, lots of possible issues however I never touch the stuff myself, but my working is limited with that. Acrylic is cheap, which is its only real positive.

I did a bass in a colour I saw on a car, and got an auto repair shop to mix me up a 2k can to that. It may be difficult matching from chips, but it's worth a shot. It may even be that Google will find another builder that replicated butterscotch in 2k auto paint and knows a code for reference.

Bear in mind the safety requirements of 2k. Respiratory, skin, eyes. It's a bit of a challenge, but given how tough and quick the paint is, it's worth trying. Start with an appropriate primer on 240 grit wood surface, sand the primer with 320 until smooth, potentially re-prime. It doesn't have to block out the wood. Sand, remove dust and build layers of colour. If it's not a metallic/pearl, sand between coats. You can then clearcoat if required.

Nitro butterscotch can be slightly transparent. 2k will struggle to achieve this as it's usually for block colour. It's possible since the can contents can be customised, however it might be difficult in practice. It would also affect your priming and grain filling if these were to be partially visible. Solid is a good easily attainable goal. 

@MiKro - any input here?

[Prostheta]

Oh, the difference with these is that 2k is catalysed so it's a chemical conversion process, hence the cans are good for a day when mixed by a shop. Same as SprayMax when the catalyst is released. All other products are designed to sit on shelves in stores, and be usable several times. There's the real compromise.

I love nitro too, but it takes over your life.