Jv-1 Project..

[Guitarfrenzy]

Thanks guys, I hate a bulky heel, so that's why I carve it out so that you can reach all the frets comfortably when playing. It gradually slopes down from the back of the guitar to the neck area, it's tricky to get it smooth, but will definitely be worth it.

Very cool....I'm really interested in the glued-on heel....do you always do it that way?

If you've been following my thread about converting a bolt-on neck to a set neck, then you'll understand my interest.

I was thinking to do something fancy, like route the heel a bit , build up the top...but seeing what you did with the heel makes me think I can do pretty much the same thing ...

hmmm

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No, I've never done a heel this way, but I just got tired of having a big bulky heel in the way and though that if I used really good wood and carbon fiber rod reinforced it, I could make the heel area virtually noexistant. I also wanted to make sure I used stronger glue than Titebond, which is why I decided to go with the Gorilla Glue. I still have some more hand sanding to do, but shouldn't take too long. I'm hoping to have the guitar completed in the next couple of days.. but I better hurry up if it's going to happen.. lol

[jmrentis]

OMG!!! That grain is amazing! The back looks so cool as does the front. It almost looks computer generated. Good show! And that heel is great, it looks very flush with the angle from the upper horn to the lower horn, thats the look I like the best. Can't wait to see this one all setup!! Good luck. Jason

[Guitarfrenzy]

Thanks Jason, the Swamp Ash was selected for it's figure and ultra lightweight. The figure comes out even more when you start carving the top. That's where all the swirl grain comes from. I didn't get anything done to the guitar today, but I will drill for the bridge and pots tomorrow. I'm still debating on the output jack, I was thinking of going with the 1/2" Flush Mount Output Jack but I'm still not sure.

[Curtis P]

Hey Matt

do you get much tear out when routing the ash??

looking great (as usual)

Curtis

[Mickguard]

I also wanted to make sure I used stronger glue than Titebond, which is why I decided to go with the Gorilla Glue.

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I've been reading up on glues...it seems that the people saying that poly glues like Gorilla Glue are strongest are the people that make them!

Anyway, I read about one strength test--they were testing 'long grain to long grain' strength --which is pretty much what your heel (and mine) is, right?

The strongest in that instance was Titebond...here's the quote: "Zimmerman says that the joints made by the polyurethane glue failed around 3,510 pounds per square inch (psi) of pressure. Franklin’s Titebond, a popular yellow glue, failed at 3,600 psi. And Titebond II, their exterior-grade outdoor glue, failed at 3,750 psi."

Here's the Link

Here's another link for a Science Fair project (it's a pdf file).

Anyway, obviously the Gorilla Glue is plenty strong enough. But I'm reassured that the white glue will work just as well--since there's no Gorilla Glue available around here!

[Guitarfrenzy]

Hey Matt

do you get much tear out when routing the ash??

looking great (as usual)

Curtis

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I use to get tearout quite a bit before I came up with a method that worked great for me. The problems come when you try to route too much wood off with one pass, or too much depth at one pass either. So what I've been doing for the longest time now is to cut as close to the line with my bandsaw as I can, then with the template on the guitar, use the Robo-Sander to bring it as far as it will. I find that most Robo-Sanders won't sand all the way up to the template. That's exactly the ones I'm looking for, since it will leave approximately 1/32" or less left, I can then use a router safely to finish it off without any tearout at all. The best thing about using the router to finish is because it will leave the surface smooth and almost no sanding needed. As far as the neck goes, I never use a router on the headstock part. A small Robo-Sander and hand sanding does the trick fast enough. Tearout can be a huge problem if you don't have a plan to eliminate it.

[Cyclone]

This is the first chance that I have had to look at your project and its kind of amazing how much our neck heels relemble each other. Its looking great and I can't wait to seed it finished.

[Guitarfrenzy]

Idch.. nice article on the glue review, I use both Titebond and Gorilla Glue, but the best thing I think for ultimate strength is two part Epoxy. Which is what I probably should have used. I've never had a time where either glue (Titebond, or Gorilla Glue) failed me though. Although I've never had the need to put that much pressure on a neck to test it out.

Cyclone.. yeah they do look similar, and there is only so much you can do with the heel area. I think that the way I did it by getting the neck heel pretty close before gluing did help out a lot, so there wasn't as much wood to get rid of after it was glued. You'd be suprised how many times I just used the drum sander attached to a cordless drill to do areas like this. You can really sculpt the wood any way you like with it. I also use surforms, rasps, spokeshave, etc. when building.

Update: The electronics will be in any day now. It's going to have a rotary switch. To install the Tone Pro's inserts I needed a 11mm drill bit it looks like, but the closest I could find was a 27/64" (10.7mm approx). I think it will work great, but haven't tested it yet, it should make it hold even better if they press in nicely.

The only other problem I've had was the output jack. I only have 1" width on the edges of the body. That's the problem, because a regular rectangular jack plate that I have is too big. So I'm thinking of buying an oval shaped one that's not as wide or go with a 1/2" Flush Mount Output Jack like Stew Mac sells. What do you guys think?

[Gorecki]

So I'm thinking of buying an oval shaped one that's not as wide or go with a 1/2" Flush Mount Output Jack like Stew Mac sells.  What do you guys think?

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My vote would go for the flush mount primarily because I would think the less hardware distraction the better. Guessing with neck through and ash finished in a manner you have done before, there is going to be good reason to not cover up any of the ash with screwed in metal pieces if at all possible.

my thoughts.

[Maiden69]

1, 2, 3.

This are 3 examples that I can offer you for the jack output placement, I know they are not traditional, but they are comfortable and the guitar looks good ans less clutered. 1" is not enough for any conventional plate, you could make a custon one and have it plated in a local chrome shop,

[Guitarfrenzy]

1, 2, 3.

This are 3 examples that I can offer you for the jack output placement, I know they are not traditional, but they are comfortable and the guitar looks good ans less clutered.  1" is not enough for any conventional plate, you could make a custon one and have it plated in a local chrome shop,

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That reminds me of a Brian Moore guitar, I've never done one that way, but looks interesting. What kind of bit did you use for that? Forstner? What size?

You never know, I might end up going with the flush mount output jack though, simply because I can get by with only a 1/2" hole, but it really is going to be dependant on how I want the control cavity. Still a lot to think about. Oh well back to sanding the body and neck getting ready for grainfilling that is to come later.

[GuitarMaestro]

That guitar looks VERY cool....excellent design and great execution! Congrats! Cant wait to see it finished. One question: A couple of pages ago you mentioned using a laser for checking the alignment of parts. This seems like a cool idea, however I cannot really get what kind of laser you use from the pictures. It seems like this unit more or less generates a "laser-plane" and not only a ray. How is this unit called and where did you buy it?

[Maiden69]

Matt on that one I used the same sizes that Brian posted on his tutorial for the RG to JEM output jack.

I use forstener bits on the 1/2 and 3/4 size and a regular bit for the 1/4. Make sure if you do this that you have an extension tool for the forstner since they are kinda short for the angled down thing, but they will do OK for regular ones like the JEM

[Guitarfrenzy]

Thanks GuitarMaestro, your probably the only one who noticed that laser, but it wasn't that expensive. I got it at a local hardware store, it's just a 90° Horizontal/Vertical beam laser, although it doesn't even have a brand name on it.. lol I'll try to do some research and see if I can find out who makes it though. It is a very handy tool to have. I use it all the time during the building process. It really keeps everything aligned perfectly, and you can even use it for proper bridge placement. For instance, I can place the bridge where it needs to be scale length wise, 25" for this guitar, and using the laser I can simulate where the string will be. So, since you know that the two outer E strings should be at least 1/8" away from the edges of the fingerboard, knowing this you can align the bridge perfect using the laser as your guide.

Maiden, good link, I guess the reason I never looked at it was because it said input jack, instead of output jack. I think for this guitar I'm going to use the flush mount though, since it only takes a 1/2" hole. I like the way you did your guitars though, very nice. I will definitely do a guitar like that in the future, but right now I don't have a way to get any forstner bits quickly, so I'm going with the input jack that Stew Mac sells.

Update:

I finally got the bridge holes drilled, I had to use a 27/64" bit for this. It was setup so that with all the bridge adjustments toward the neck, that the little E string will be exactly 25". The big E string needs to sit 1/8" farther away for proper intonation later, so it will end up angling the bridge for maximum adjustment. I also drilled some recess holes for the knobs, so that the pots will have a flat surface to mount to. Here's a picture of how things look now.

JV-1 top

Now a look with the bridge, and knobs just placed for this picture for a better idea of how it will look.

I know, the knobs aren't centered.. lol But you get the idea. Oh yeah, and those are the Tone Pro Locking Studs I got from SpecialtyGuitars.com. They are the real deal and should make the Leo Quan bridge that much better.

So, today it's going to be raining a lot because of Hurricane Rita, so I probably will have to wait to grain fill since it's so humid. I hope to have the guitar done by next weekend. We'll, it's about time.. haha

[gun]

Good clean job, I like that piece of ash!!!

What pick ups are you going to mount?

[Guitarfrenzy]

Good  clean job, I like that piece of ash!!!

What pick ups are you going to mount?

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Two Seymour Duncan pickups... JB Model (SH-4) for the Bridge Pickup, and a Jazz Model (SH-2) for the Neck Pickup, with gold mounting rings. I'm going to use a 5-way Rotary Switch, with one volume, and one tone. I still have to order a flush mounting output jack though.

I couldn't sit still today, had to do some grain filling. lol.. Used the Stew Mac waterbase grain filler this time, and will later use epoxy as the last filler.

[jmrentis]

Two Seymour Duncan pickups... JB Model (SH-4) for the Bridge Pickup, and a Jazz Model (SH-2) for the Neck Pickup, with gold mounting rings. I'm going to use a 5-way Rotary Switch, with one volume, and one tone. I still have to order a flush mounting output jack though.

I don't have that setup right now but I really like it and will probably end up doing that on my next project. I hear a lot of people using that, and one of my favorite bands guitarist use that setup; Adam Jones from Tool, I really dig the sound he gets. Will you get us some samples when you finish? I bet it will sound great! Good luck. Jason

[erikbojerik]

Very nice GF! Are you going with black epoxy again for the pore fill?

[Guitarfrenzy]

jmrentis that's why I wanted this setup, because I played a guitar that had those pickups in it and loved it. So, I'm anxious to see how well it sounds for this guitar. I'm hoping the guitar will sound as good as I invision. But, yeah, I'll definitely post some sound samples for you guys.

erikbojerik: haha.. the old black epoxy method, how could I do a guitar without that? But you know what, even though you probably won't believe it, right after the Strat tutorial, I've even had a hard time buying black epoxy from Stew Mac.. lol I do mix my own though with dye at times. Actually, I'm not sure if this guitar will be done that way though... still haven't decided yet. Depends on how much I want the grain to pop out. I really like the Stew Mac Waterbased Grain Filler, it works good also, just takes more coats. I could tint it black since it's easier to work with, then use the epoxy method to finish the grain filling process. You know, there really are a million ways to do even the most simple job.. haha

[Guitarfrenzy]

Well I didn't use the black epoxy method on this guitar. I used the Stew Mac waterbase grainfiller four times, let it fully dry for a couple of days, then used clear epoxy two times, to really make sure I don't have any grain sinking after painting. I think Swamp Ash is a beautiful wood, but don't let anyone fool you, it's not nearly as easy to get ready for painting as other woods due to the deep & wide pores it has.

I had to make three templates for the control cavity. The first one if for the actual cavity, the second for the control plate to recess, the third to make the actual control plate. Here's a picture of the control cavity after I was done.

The pots I'm using had to have a 3/8" hole for them. If you look closely at the picture you can see a 1/4" hole at the top of the cavity. This was drilled for the humbucker wires to come through to the control cavity. Also I drilled a 1/4" hole from the same hole in the cavity toward the bridge post hole, so that I can ground the bridge. More later..

[Guitarfrenzy]

I decided to go with a Gold Oval Jack Plate on this guitar. So, I routed out a 7/8" hole for the output jack. The back is rounded over slightly, so the hole had to be centered so that the plate wouldn't touch this area or it would look terrible. Here's how it turned out.

Now to finish sanding with 320 grit and ready for it to be painted.

[Gorecki]

Whooohoooo...she's gonna be pretty hoss!!!!!

[Setch]

How did I miss this until now!?! Great stuff Matt - can't wait to see her all finished up

[Maiden69]

Nice so far Matt. I like the black grain on ash, but your guitar grain pattern is very good, so a natural grain color will be good too. I do the control cavity kinda like you, but Idon't do the 3rd template, what I do is to start the control pot with a 1/4" bit from the front, then use this as a pilot and go from the back with a 1"-1 1/4" fostner and go until I have about 1/2" between the cavity and the front, after this I go fron the front and drill the 3/8" hole and test the fit of the pots and adjust each individually. This is because of the carve, all pots are not going to be equally distanced from the cavity to the front. On flat tops like a strat I do what you did with 2 templates only.

[Guitarfrenzy]

Thanks Setch, Gorecki, and Maiden. I'm just like you guys, I love to build guitars, and I hope this one will be finished soon.. I just hate prep sanding so much.. yikes, but I got to get it perfect before the painting.

Nice so far Matt. I like the black grain on ash, but your guitar grain pattern is very good, so a natural grain color will be good too.  I do the control cavity kinda like you, but  Idon't do the 3rd template, what I do is to start the control pot with a 1/4" bit from the front, then use this as a pilot and go from the back with a 1"-1 1/4" fostner and go until I have about 1/2" between the cavity and the front, after this I go fron the front and drill the 3/8" hole and test the fit of the pots and adjust each individually.  This is because of the carve, all pots are not going to be equally distanced from the cavity to the front.  On flat tops like a strat I do what you did with 2 templates only.

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I did basically the same thing bro, except I did these steps.

1. Mark and drill a 5/8" hole all the way through the body, where the pots will be.

2. Since the marks was place the exact same places along the carve, I just made the area around the pots flat with a forstner bit. What I did was mark the area with pencil marks, and when all the marks had vanished, I had just enough wood gone for it to be flat. I know it's not what PRS does, but that's not the look I was going for.

3. Turn the guitar over and using a wider fostner bit, I drilled to 1/4" of wood for each one.

4. Took my cavity template and routed until I was even with one of the pot area depths. Then I only did the other two pots the same way, avoiding the other ones, so that each had their own height.

5. Hand sanded the cavity so the areas flow together.

6. Used a 3/8" drill bit to widen the pot holes.

Then I used the other cavity templates to make recess for the control cavity cover.

I can see how doing it your way would have probably been easier in some aspects, and I will consider doing it that way the next time around. This way worked out great for me also though.