Rgt-7 Ql Rbb

[RGGR]

Finally found some time to work on RGT7 QL RBB.

As for this project I couldn't rely on Bondo to correct my mistakes, I decided to go the Robosander route for this build, and not the template bit route.

Some time ago I had bought a Kinzo (European Harborfreight type cheap tool brand) drillpress. As chuck of drill wouldn't stay connected to drill I brought the piece of crap back to the store.

Hmmm......with Robosander in the mail....I needed different kinda set-up to make full use of Robosander. From MDF I made drill holder, that would hold drill in place, so RoboSander could be attached (I will post pic if someone is interested.)

So far so good.

I had cut body out with Jigsaw. With Robo sander I brought it back closer to specs. Although discovered that Robosander doesn't sand completely fluss. Care must be taken with sanding.

With Limba body sanded close to specs, I drawn outline on quilted maple, and cut maple out with jigsaw. With Robosander I sanded closer to specs. Bottom wing is done. Working on top wing. (Top wing needs some more work, with arm and body contour)

Currently the quilted maple is not yet connected to the limba wings. Will put some small copper nails in body and cut off the heads to secure limba on body during glueing.

Here other pic

After glueing quilted maple to body......I will sand wings flush.

Wings are not connected to neck blank yet. Figured it was easier working on neck. More later. At least some progress again.

Edited August 21, 2005 by RGGR

[Bigtommyb]

Looking Great - Also any news on the JS 7 project?

T

[RGGR]

Looking Great - Also any news on the JS 7 project?

Currently looking for new supplier to cut acrylic templates for me. Guy that I was talking to about the job is bit of jerk, not sure how he thinks he can run a business.

Well, I guess that's one of the joy of building....trying to locate decent and reliable suppliers.

Although I know of buddy of mine whom just finished his custom bike.....that whenever he showed up at some of the mechanical engineering workshops he was working with.....they would hide behind their desk.........they didn't want to exposed to his trange requests and ideas.

Once the templates are done I can do some more routing (backplates, control cavity, pups)....

Wanting to go Acrylic routing templates to begin with, as I can use most of the new templates on RGT-7 project. And because of more complex shapes, I don't want to go MDF route - although I know they could be copied into Acrylic too.

Edited August 23, 2005 by RGGR

[helge]

hi, i used acrylic templates for a bass copy i did for a friend too. they messed up the whole body, because when i did the pickup routing, the ball bearing melted the acryl. so i would be really careful with it. maybe the acryl i had wasn't hard enough.

[RGGR]

StewMac sells these, and I never heard anyone having trouble with them.

Nice to point it out though. I will do test run and see how it goes.

Normally the ball bearing stays stays put, while the bit turns inside it. That's purpose of ball bearing to begin with........strange that it messed up your acrylic template?

Yesterday I had glued up the maple top to the bottom Limba wing. One of the shims I used for clamping had left a small indentation in the Limba. I wasn't happy about this.

To my own surprise when I wetted the Limba a bit........the wood fibers raised again, and when all dried up......the small dents left by the wood shims were gone.

You gotta love this material made by nature. It keeps surprising me.

[RGGR]

Okay.......question about glueing on 1/4" maple top onto wing (including arm contour).

I have read other threads pointing out....using a steam iron for this job.

As I don't have a steam iron....just a regular one......I was thinking using wet cloth under iron and getting moist and heat in wood this way.

Gosh, love that word.....moist!

Now my question......what is best procedure to go about.......

I was thinking putting small copper nails in Limba (cutting off their heads).....and pressing maple on top, so it's secure and won't shift. This procedure worked good on bottom wing when glueing it in place. With applying heat I'm bit in limbo how to go about with this.

Would it be okay to apply heat.....and gently coast it in to shape with help of clamps......and leaving it there for night or so.....and next day glue it in place??

Found some good info in this thread.

Guess I have to make sure the transition to the contour is nice and smooth. Although not sure about glueing and applying heat at same time. I imagine it this to be pretty messy procedure.

Bottom wing is glued in place, but maple still needs to be sanded flush......normally I would have used pattern bit for this.....but **** scared of tear-outs.....so normal hand-job is name of the day........

Edited August 25, 2005 by RGGR

[feylya]

I'm sorry but:

so normal hand-job is name of the day........

←

*Snigger*

[haggardguy]

lmao

ahem... grow up

[Scott Rosenberger]

Okay.......question about glueing on 1/4" maple top onto wing (including arm contour).

I have read other threads pointing out....using a steam iron for this job.

As I don't have a steam iron....just a regular one......I was thinking using wet cloth under iron and getting moist and heat in wood this way.

Guess I have to make sure the transition to the contour is nice and smooth. Although not sure about glueing and applying heat at same time. I imagine it this to be pretty messy procedure.

←

from the photo it looks like the contour is sanded to a "hard edge" meaning that the top goes from flat to contour very quickly. I'd relax the edge quite a bit and make the transition more gradual. it'll be easier to get the drop top to bend that way.

you can use a semi wet rag under the iron the create steam. another product I've used with sucess is veneer softener. it helps make the wood pliable too.

[RGGR]

Yeah, yeah, yeah....

And some more of the same.

Should have known that MOIST remark would get you guys started.

Edited August 25, 2005 by RGGR

[RGGR]

Whenever I bump into new unexplored territory in relation to my guitar building project, I have learned it's best to test the procedure before hand on piece of scrap instead of the real deal. Better be safe then sorry. (Call me a chicken)

So in relation to bending quilted maple top over arm contour......I have thought of possible best procedure of getting the job done:

- wet towel and iron

- steam iron

- carpet steam cleaner

- bath tub with hot water

- Spagetti pan with boiling water......

Hmmmmmm?!

Last option seemed most effective and least messy to me. So I took a piece a scrap maple.......dumped it into pan of boiling water......Every few minutes taking it out and test bending it (just by hand - wearing garden gloves) - after 5 minutes later I took it out, as it seemed flexible enough for a date with my limba top wing. I test bended it over the arm contour....and it worked like a charm. The maple was still very stiff, but flexible enough to hug the contour. Great!!! I did make sure the limba had smooth transition up to the arm contour.

As my maple two is made up out of two seperate pieces....(like this)

I don't have to worry about woodglue joint in piece as in complete drop top, like these.

Although I still think you could use same method.....and glue two piece top together later, instead of doing that first and then do the bend.

Now I have to cut the quilted maple piece in shape, and get all the shims and clamps ready for real deal.

Yieeeeeks.....(excited!!!)

Edited August 27, 2005 by RGGR

[Kammo1]

RGGR can't wait to see the process and how it turns out. Kammo1

[RGGR]

Did some cooking tonight. An old pan, some water, piece of quilted maple........

I felt like the Swedish chef of the Muppet Show.

After 5 minutes in boiling water.....I positioned maple on Limba top wing. Clamps in place........and it's currently sitting there. No glue applied yet, just getting arm contour bend in there.

Just like test piece I did earlier....it went pretty smooth. The maple was just like chewing gum. Not sure how long it needs to be clamped on there. First I though 24 hours or so.....but as I have very busy week next week....I thought I just as well leave it on there for week or so.

Next up are sanding maple more detailed into shape, and glueing cap on.

[haggardguy]

Lookin nice, that picture of the pot looks like a hand with a mitten on it reaching out of the water.

[Guest AlexVDL]

.

[westhemann]

Wouldn't you get dents in the wood from the clamps if the maple is like chewing gum??

←

use soft clamps ,and even then you still have to sand out the indentions after application...at least that is what i had to do on my drop top

[Mattia]

Wouldn't you get dents in the wood from the clamps if the maple is like chewing gum??

←

use soft clamps ,and even then you still have to sand out the indentions after application...at least that is what i had to do on my drop top

←

Also, a wet paper towel and a soldering iron/household iron do wonders with dents in any wood. If it's just wood compression, most will steam out, requiring highly minimal sanding to get back right.

The one thing I don't like s'much about the idea of boiling wood is the fact you've waited to get this stuff as dry as possible, and then...you drop it in boiling water. I'd probably use my heat blanket, bit of aluminum foil and a misting of water (that gets converted to steam by the heat), as well as a matched caul (friendly plastic to the rescue! Hurray!), but that's just me, I guess.

[RGGR]

The one thing I don't like s'much about the idea of boiling wood is the fact you've waited to get this stuff as dry as possible, and then...you drop it in boiling water. I'd probably use my heat blanket, bit of aluminum foil and a misting of water (that gets converted to steam by the heat), as well as a matched caul (friendly plastic to the rescue! Hurray!), but that's just me, I guess.

I have thought of this too. But looking at it, I figured I had two options. One is going for dry wood bend. Meaning - clamping the maple top on, and apply light amount of additional pressure over large period of time (say 3-4 weeks) adding slightly more pressure every week/couple of days. This eliminates using water in process.

Pro's - no water used in process, keeping everything nice and dry.

Con's - process takes time....and there is bigger change of rupture.

Option two is using heat and water. No matter what process you use......you will have to bring the heat into the maple top. Steaming iron, heat blanket, etc....all do same process....and all add heat and water to the previously nicely dried wood.

You could opt for just using heat ....no steam......but reading other reports, water/steam seems to accelerate the process. Where steam iron works well, steam carpet cleaner even better.

I opted for boiling water route, as I figured, the time the maple would be exposed to the heat and water would be minimum. On 1/4" maple top, I could get away with 5 minutes of water exposure. Seeing ease of process I think 4 minutes would have been sufficient too.

So the pro's of boiling water trick - it's fast and easy.....and you don't have to mess with steaming irons, heating blankets....for long period of time. I read reports of having to use a steaming iron for 45 minutes. Well......45 minutes of heating iron vs. 5 minutes of boiling water.......you do the math??

Secondly, electricity and water normally don't go very well together.....so using pan of boiling water prevents this from happening. Just to be safe.

Thirdly, the Ms wouldn't allow her new steam iron to be used in the process.

I also want to point out, this won't be one week turnaround project. Meaning maple top has plenty of time to dry out again. Next week it will stay put in clamps. And next weekend I will take'm out and see how it all looks like.

For now I'm feeling pretty good about the process.

Edited September 3, 2005 by RGGR

[Mattia]

No, I'd opt for using heat and water, much like bending an acoustic guitar side. Dry bending? No thanks. Slow, and I don't trust it to work, per se.

Thing is, there's a huge difference between boiling a piece of wood, then bending and clamping it, and wetting a piece of wood, then heating it, letting the hot steam help plasticize the fibres and allowing it to bend. Heat blankets, even household irons (to a degree..blankets more versatile in this case) allow the heat to be distributed evenly. Wetting the wood a little, a misting more or less, then adding some foil to prevent the steam created from escaping immediately, then heating it will help bend the wood, and the steam will, ultimately, after it's done its job, evaporate. You'll end up with a hot piece of rather dry, bent wood.

Also, well, 45 minutes seems a tad on the long side, but 5 minutes dunked in water adds up to a lot of water absorbtion, more than a misting+heat, or simply steam (most of which evaporates quite quickly, doesn't stick around) and an iron. Heat blankets should do the work in about 10-15 minutes, tops, and that's going really slowly with the bend because of the thickness of the wood. Probably cycle through the heat a few times to 'cook' it a little more as well, but that's a personal thing. If I didn't build acoustics, and only did the occasional drop top, I'd use a household iron, though, since a heat blanket is 60-70 bucks minimum, after all.

[RGGR]

There are always multiple roads you can go by. I'm not saying my boiling water method is the answer to bending problem. It is just MY answer.

This is my first go at it....and the boiling water matter made sense to me for reasons mentioned before.

Yes, I understand there will be water absorption. And yes, the piece need some additional time to dry out again.

[RGGR]

The sun was out today. I was a gorgeous afternoon. And instead of hanging infront of the tele watching the SuperBikes, I decided to make serious dent in "Honey-do-list", and reserve some time to sand the sides flush of the bottom wing.

Going for stained guitar meant not using a template bit to get sides flush (scared of tears outs and having to bag the whole project!!!), so I'm using some good'ld elboy grease instead. And even if you have to take 3-4 mm off.....it's still a tiring exercise.

The inner horn still needs to be done.......but quite happy with results so far.

So, and I'm off and gonna poor myself a glas of a very nice Maroccian Syrah (Halana - red for those interested. An awesome wine.) and enjoy the rest of the evening.

Edited September 4, 2005 by RGGR

[RGGR]

This morning the quilted maple was released from it's imprissonment. It had nice flowing curve in it. (Note to self: Shoot pic next time). The boiling water trick worked wonders.

With Robosander I sanded the quilted maple top piece closer to specs. With last bit of glue in the can.......I laid down a thin frosty layer on the Limba top piece and gently pressed the maple in place. Some cut-off small copper nails guided the process.

Currently 4 million clamps are holding everything secure (You can never have enough clamps, I guess)......and over course of this weekend the newly married couple will be released into the wild.

Yibbidi Yibbida folks. I'm excited.

Pics will follow!!

Next up will be sanding edges flush, and sanding body contour in top wing. Then it will be time to give some attention to the neck through........As it's screaming at me for quite some time now.......Help me, help me......I need to be pimped too.

I would like to put pre-slotted, pre-radiused Cocobolo 24 frets, 27" fretboard on neck blank, but unfortunately lmii.com is not doing a 27" fretboard. Now could I go the unfretted route and doing this myself.....but this process scares me.

Well worries for tomorrow I guess.

Edited September 10, 2005 by RGGR

[RGGR]

Here is pic of top wing with quilted maple glued on. I slightly dampened the maple to bring the quilt out.

Still more work on other parts of guitar......but I can't wait to let the wood stain/dye do it's magic.

"Oho oho, the magician is my name.....oho oho....." - B. Dickinson

Edited September 10, 2005 by RGGR

[westhemann]

there is a big difference between drying out a piece of wood originally due to it's being "green" and just drying itout from plain water after it has already been properly dried.

i did the hot water method(not boiling...that's just silly)and it only took about a day,if that,to dry back out.

[RGGR]

I'm too inexperienced to comment on wood drying remarks. Like said before...this guitar won't be finished overnight....so any self inflicted water will have plenty of time to evaporate again. And isn't woodglue also not partly made out of water???

I just chose a method that made sense to me, like explained before. And I'm very happy with results, so I wouldn't doubt using this method again.

Disclaimer: Described method works great when using two seperate top pieces.....cause I did notice that the wood swelled during boiling process and the nicely squared up side, wasn't so nicely squared up anymore after boil. Meaning - would you boil two pieces in regular bookmatched drop top.....there would be centerline issues.

Don't understand why boiling water is anymore "silly" then using just your normal hot water, or steam. During boil, water just goes from it's water state in to it's gas state. This process just tend to happen at 100 degrees celcius......and will stay at this temperature till all water is evaporated. To me this is perfect controlled environment.

Where steam under pressure can reach much higher temperatures of well over 100 plus degrees.

In the end it comes down to method and process you're comfortable with. This was my first try at this, and I'm happy with results. Are there more suitable processes........sure, plenty....I just chose this one.