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former soldiers are some of the best people i know (after they have de-stressed for a while after getting out)

they truly understand what this country is about and what it takes to ensure it's continuing freedom

amen...

:D (for those of you who don't know thats a symbol of you freedom, you know the freedom out fathers fought and died for?) :DB)

I'm sorry some of you feel the way you do but the men and women in our armed forces are the bravest most selfless people on the planet. End of story.

Edited by Godin SD
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the only two things that interest me in the marines at this point is aircraft mechanics and cryptology

My vote would be for crypto tech. When you get out, whether it's in 4 years or 20 years you'll want something you can do for a living. I have a feeling after 9/11 arplanes are not the way to earn a living anymore since all of the companies are going belly up and pulling all the pensions, etc. Cryptology will always have its place in and out of the military. With the continued rise of the net and the necessity for corporate and personal digital security you should be able to find a decent paying job after the service to use your skills. Plus, the CT's get to sit in a nice air conditioned room all day and NOBODY is allowed in except them and the XO and CO. :D I was a radar tech so I had the AC rooms also but most everyone hung out in my space because of the AC.

Edited by bluespresence
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congrats

hopefully george can do some more fabricating and rustle up another war for you

(maybe that will give him a third term?)

Not to worry, they'll figure out a way to steal another one. Don't matter if it's Bush or another guy, as long as Cheney can still run the show.

Sorry, I just can't applaud anyone's decision to go fight wars. I recognize the need for armies...as a means of defense.

Unfortunately, the US hasn't fought a defensive war in 60 years.

Now, if you told us you were joining the Coast Guard, that's something else.

I'm sorry you guys feel that way, I understand that there is no clear reason for the ongoing war, since the WOMD were never found. But they were none the less used against people in Iraq (go ask the turqs).

I truly understand your reasoning since all of you are overseas and it is different there, ( I was overthere, mainly Germany, France and Spain), and the European way of thinking is rather different than ours.

I guess that Iraq was a better place when the former dictator was ruling (Hussein), I mean only a few were living OK, if you commited a crime, depending on the offense, they will either cut your hand or just execute you. I mean, I know this is the way it is on all europe right?

I think that the Army IS a mean of defense, and I'm really frustrated that most of the 3rd world nations see the US as a liberator and expect them to go and help them in all the situations that hapen to then, Africa, Iraq, and others... what you want the US to do? Sit back and observe genocide? Just a thought... What would have happened in the 1 and 2 war if the allies hadn't intervine?

ON those 2 MOS, Crypto is good, but most of the Amrine field on it is as a Signal Communicator, or a Radio Operator. If you can get Crypto Equipment repairer, which is what I do, you can have a lot of open field once you get out, and the clearance you obtain open a lot of doors, especialy here in the Capitol region.

Aircraft mechanic is good, especialy the one that the Marines do, since it concentrates on helicopters, and you can got to college when you get out and continue studies at helicopter mechanic. With the Marines experience, the prior service background, the clearance you get, and the free education, you will be set for life.

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this is why im thinking the navy might give me a better job with better bonuses and i might not have to shame myself and my relatives by fighting a war with no point.

If you really feel that way, Meegs, then don't join the Marines. I know too many people that are over there right now that would kick the living sh*t out of you right now for making that kind of statement. When you say that the war is pointless you desecrate the graves of the soldiers, both American and Iraqi, and the civilians who have DIED for a free Iraq and a true democracy in the Middle East. Just because the Euros decided to suckle the tit of Saddam doesn't mean you have to justify your decision to fight for what you believe in. The truth is that Iraq IS better off now than it was three years ago. I have seen the pictures of a free Iraq taken by my friends while all the rest of the world media seems to focus on is the poor white trash who were guarding Abu Ghraib.

The sad thing is, France and Spain haven't fought a defensive war in 150 years. They rolled out the welcome mat to the facists nearly 70 years ago and helped the Islamic fundamentalists to take up arms against America to boost the Euro's value. You can call it pacifism but I call it gutless to watch people dying in your own backyard while you're sipping a mimosa on the French Riviera. The truth will come out one of these days, and it won't be that the WMD disappeared overnight and that the EU had nothing to do with the oil-for-food scandal. The insurgents will NOT win, and Iraq will be the shining symbol of freedom in the Middle East.

That's all I have to say about that. Sorry about the rant, but I felt the need after hearing a lot of bashing from the European delegation who know nothing about term limits or the fact that their governments (except France) all supported us at one time AND contributed a fair amount of intelligience to the Iraq situation. I need a Tylenol.

:D

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im trying for things that can pay me a lot in and out of the service, but i also want to get a degree while im in, just because its that much easier when the government is paying for it and you have more time and a guaranteed job while you do it. so what im thinking is my choices for the marines would be paying a lot after promotions which ive been told are easier to get in non combative jobs, but i also have yet to check out my choices for the navy since things operate pretty similairly through both services. had i not chosen to enlist and get a degree while im in, i wouldve probably ended up being a music major, which in memphis if you walk up to a homeless person(we have a huge homeless population and a horrible crime problem, were like number 3 on the most dangerous cities in america) and ask them what they did before they ended up without a job, usually it is something having to do with music whether its making music, producing it, or selling it. memphis and nashville's colleges have huge music programs because its such a thriving industry here. i dont want to end up jobless, and i have a feeling that living at home getting a music degree id have a better chance running the family business when i get out of college(the family business that was started by my father doing exactly what he did in the marines and now making 66$ an hour plus service calls and mileage, fixing hydraulic lifts for heavy craft and vehicles). so the service is my best bet because not only do i have a guaranteed job for so long, i can also get a degree and have a backup plan if i dont end up fixing helicoptors or working on computer coding systems once i get out.

yeah, crafty, i couldve probably worded that a different way. i just dont wanna do infantry for something i dont believe needs to be done. i think that war to an extent was very very very needed, i just dont think we need to still occupy iraq so much anymore, i think we should give them a little bit more of a chance to govern themselves and focus on some other things that need to be done, like the slavic countries with genocide problems, and the other countries in the middle east and areas in asia that have the same problem and even a more apparent need for political action...

btw, when im in and im getting a degree, ive decided that the only thing besides music and military jobs that interests me is zoology and botany.

the two things that memphis is home to is good music and an amazing world renowned zoo that has a set of 10 billion dollar a year animals that eat and sleep and crap and make 8 bucks every time a single person wants to view them (eh, pandas). so my backup plan is working with animals, not cats and dogs of course, but the big expensive ones(kinda like the jets and helicopters i wanna work on).

Edited by Meegs666
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what you want the US to do? Sit back and observe genocide? Just a thought... What would have happened in the 1 and 2 war if the allies hadn't intervine?

a lot would have happened, but remember the US didn't join until the attack on Pearl Harbour from the Japanese, Hitler declared war on America and thought it would take them a year or two to send equipped soldiers over and thought by then he would've had all of europe and russia, and the US only gave moral support and supplied the Allies. At least, last I checked. I could be wrong. I would like to thank the Russians though for sure. In Europe on the coast of France during D-day, the only Germans guarding the beach were over 40 and under 18. Germany's best troops, 80-90% of them were in Russia.

It's weird with Iraq. I get mixed feelings. I still think the best time to have done all this was the first time you guys were over their in Kuwait.

The sad thing is, France and Spain haven't fought a defensive war in 150 years

France did fight in world war one, whether they were any good at it is a different story, but they still held out and managed to stop the Schlieffen Plan (90% of the German army, at the time, the toughest European army, and after it was to conquer France 100% of the german forces would've been in Russia). Hitler tried to convince General Franko to join the war on his side, but Franko said it would've been a disaster for his country, not to mention like Italy, they were not prepared. Franko was the only fascist leader and is probably considered a hero among Spain for not entering a hopeless cause. And so what if they haven't fought a defensive war in 150 years? Canada technically hasn't fought a defensive war ever. The war of 1812, Boer war, and world war 1 we were ordered by the queen. In world war 2 we were asked to go and decided we should "for the empire" (as Klingon as that sounds), Korea? Only 26 791. We weren't in Vietnam though a few thousand Canadians went to the US and enlisted. Everything after has been peace keeping missions until that gruesome time of Rawanda. If anything, the only war we have fought is the Referendum where Quebec wants to seperate lol. Why is it a sad thing that France and Spain haven't foughten a war in 150 years? Is it so bad to not fight a war? Isn't that why the united states is going to war to prevent terrorism, an act of war? I don't get it.

helped the Islamic fundamentalists to take up arms against America to boost the Euro's value.

remember America stoped trading with the European Union, which caused the EU to start trading with China, and that's why now Prime Minister Paul Martin, President George Bush, and President Fox are meeting from time to time to figure out a plan to fix all that.

You can call it pacifism but I call it gutless to watch people dying in your own backyard while you're sipping a mimosa on the French Riviera.

true, but war will never stop, and rememeber, there are more people dying in our backyard (north america) a day than their backyard (middle east). And more people are dieing in Africa than the middle east, a continent the Allies divided up which is a cause as to why it's all messed up today. Does that make us gutless for turning our backs on them? Yeah Live 8 is coming, and they cancelled some of the debts, but still, there's more genocide going on there than Iraq. Maybe Europe is just hooked on Ayn Rand's philosophy. By the way, Europe is or was in the war. The Netherlands, Italy, Spain, Poland, Britain. Why is it that everyone makes fun of the French when it comes to winning wars but now everyone is pissed off that they didn't join?

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html here's a page of all the battles France was involved in whether they won or lost. I'm skeptical towards it because it's not exactly an .edu site.

By the way, go to google, type in "french military victories" and click on "i'm feeling lucky" lol

The insurgents will NOT win, and Iraq will be the shining symbol of freedom in the Middle East.

they are not winning now, but remember that anyone can win the Guerrila war, or any war no matter how few.

I still think this should've have been dealt with during the first Gulf War, then i would've been pro for it. Now I'm just confused as to if this war is right or wrong.

ANYWAYS. Congratulations. Have a good time. It's a good adventure. I am thinking of joining the Canadian Armed Forces but we'll see. Maybe I'll go join the Minute Men lol.

-Jamie :D:D

Edited by sepultura999
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I think most people here seem to have genuine opinions and I have no problem respecting that, but the reason I cringe a lot of the time when discussions like this come up is because there is too many Americans who are so blindly patriotic that it is almost impossible to talk to them. Drones of the US Government hiding behind the American flag.

Maybe any country needs its fair share of those people, but gee, it really does make you see what a messed up time we live in.

- Dan

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Guest AlexVDL

Just like I thought this thread was going to be.... patriotic crap :D

I'm sorry some of you feel the way you do but the men and women in our armed forces are the bravest most selfless people on the planet.    End of story.

Ofcourse America's army... sure America is no. 1!! What about any other countries army damned? If you're fighting for your own country aren't you brave and selfless too??? What about an Iraqy citizen who blows himself up in order to get money so his family can survive?? Isn't that brave and selfless?? No the story just begins....

Okay blowing up innocent people is an act of cowardness and blowing up buildings is terrorism. But if an Iraqy blows himself up next to an American or British or Dutch jeep full of soldiers who invades his country, then he fought and died for his country and he was very brave and selfless!

You know, if my help was needed to fight to defend America or any other country because it was being attacked, I would do it without hesitating. I won't be talking nonsense about being proud to honor my country blabla.. and god bless the Netherlands and sing the anthem and all that crap. I'd just go and help because afterall that's the most human thing you can do. After I helped fighting I'd not even want any recognision because you shouldn't be helping others in order to get something back. It will only make you prouder and more arrogant... too much wars lasted so long because of pride and honour... so stupid!

Anyways in my eyes the greatest army is a defending army, not an attacking one!!

:D   (for those of you who don't know thats a symbol of you freedom, you know the freedom out fathers fought and died for?)  B)  :D

Freedom huh? It's just a flag for christ sakes! The Stars and Stripes. There are as many stars as there are states, but no particular star is for any individual state. The stripes represent the thirteen original colonies which declared their independence from Great Britain in 1776.

I wouldn't want to die for a flag... the hell with it, it's just a piece of cloth. But the Some people are so proud of country and flag that they would begin a war if someone pisses on it... that's stupid!!

Damnit.. I didn't want to respond but all the little american flags made me do it... America is always better... better cars, better motorcycles, better army, better hamburgers... everything is bigger and better... America is good Europe is bad getsick.gif

The hell with it... ban me if you want... this crap is making me sick!

EDIT: Geez Dan.. it took me 2 hours to express my feelings and you said it in two lines B)

Edited by AlexVDL
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well...this is enough

when will you people learn...it's not about patriotism vs pacifism...patriots can be pacifist and vice versa

it's not about america vs the world...it's about each individual feeling safer in his or her own home.of course self preservation makes people defensive about their own military...each person's own freedom and protection(and their families) comes before others

it's not about america being bigger or better...all it is about is pride in one's own country.

i wish the whole world was united and blessed with the prosperity and freedom that americans AND OTHER FREE COUNTRIES such as the netherlands enjoy.

those of us that pay attention do know,alex,that the netherlands is a great place to be.

the terrorist?i have no sympathy for him or his family...any more than they had sympathy for the innocent people they killed in the towers.

but politics are not allowed on this forum...and when it gets this out of hand i have no choice but to shut it down

and hamburgers suck...colon cancer on a bun :D

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