Roadhouse Blues Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 OK, I've searched for topics like this, but found none. First, on the Stewmac Site would you rather the hot rod truss rod http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Truss_rods/Adj...Truss_Rods.html or the traditional http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Truss_rods/Adj..._Truss_Rod.html and what length would you use for a PRS (25" scale length). I'm ordering soon, and I'd like to know. The hot-rod says that it's 'two way', does that mean that you can adjust on either side, because I just want one end at the neck, but the pictures show two different necks. Thanks guys. -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 (edited) Hot rod takes less experience to install. It's maximum depth is also less than a traditional truss rod, but what you gain in depth that way you lose in its depth at the nut. I like it though. There's almost no way you can screw up with that truss rod...almost. Edited August 1, 2005 by thegarehanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Blues Posted August 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Hot rod takes less experience too install. It's maximum depth is also less than a traditional truss rod, but what you gain in depth that way you lose in its depth at the nut. I like it though. There's almost no way you can screw up with that truss rod...almost. ← On this trussrod, is there a nut at each end, though? or is it just one end?. I think I now get what the picture was showing, and it's just one end. Also: What size trussrod do you use on a PRS 25" scale length neck? Any ideas anyone? Thanks -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 A little bit of reading on Stewmac's website will tell you. This was under the description of the truss rods: The 18" rod fits many electric guitars and banjos; the 14-1/4" rod fits many acoustic guitars, the 12-1/4" rod fits resonator guitars, and the 24" rod fits basses. I would probably opt for the LMI truss rod since it only takes a standard 1/4" router bit while the Stewmac truss rods either require you to buy one of their bits or monkey around with finding a way to get it to work with the stuff you have at your disposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I didn't bother getting stewmac's. I used the next closest thing(can't remember if it was 3/16 or 1/4, i'd have to look at stewmac's specs), but it was a tight fit anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Blues Posted August 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Thanks, I was lookin for that 18" lenght. and to thegarehanman, are you saying you used your own router bit? I've been using the router of a friend at my dad's work. It's a huge workshop, so I'm guessing they'd have all the right bits to give me the right width and height? Also, this may seem a stupid question. Is the trussrod to be inserted under the fingerboard? I know the skunk stripe on fender guitars are there because the truss rod was installed from the back, but it can be done under the fingerboard, right? I'm guessing that's what PRS and other companies do when they have nice figure on the neck wood that they don't want ruined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I don't think you'll see a builder on this site who uses a skunk stripe on their handmade necks. I certainly don't. It's much easier(IMHO), when you're building by hand, to just pop the truss rod in under the fret board. And i did use my own bit. If you use a 1/4" bit and a jig so it's no more than 1/4", you probably won't even notice the extra 1/32". Mine looks really tight. Once you add the silicon glue, it will be tight anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primal Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 The only reason Fender's use skunk stripes is because Fender uses VERY thin fretboards, or in the case of maple fretboards, no fretboard at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh15 Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 get the double because you will be able to adjust forward bow as well as relief and you dont need to depend on the strings as much to achieve a straight neck. and its only adjustable from one side, like all truss rods, exepct you can mount it however you want but most prefer to mount it so it adjust at the headstock so you dont have to take the neck off (assuming you have a bolt-on) to make your adjustments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I use HotRods on all my guitars, pretty much. Easy to use, reliable, adjust well, quick to install, no problems with 'em. Depending on the wood you use, a 1/4" bit should be OK for the slot (which should be a hair tighter than 1/4"), or you could just go ahead and get the 'proper' bit for the job. Not that idioatically expensive, especially if you stick with the HotRod for future builds. If the slot's slightly too wide, the 'pad with silicone caulk' trick should fix that kind of minimal thickness discrepancy really quickly. My preference (as proven by the bunch of 14 HotRods on my shelf) is for the 1/8" allen adjuster. I also don't make crazy!thin necks (don't like them), but if you do, you really have to pay attention and make sure not to carve through to the rod. As thegarehanman said, you they're pretty thin, but they're the same thickness all the way through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 i use them exclusively...18" length...i bought the router bit and it is quality...i estimate you can rout probably 20 or more necks with one bit if you treat it right... and as has been proved over and over...stewmac is NOT the only place that sells that size router bit. don't use the 1/4" bit...the whole purpose of building a guitar is to reduce the permitted tolerances,not to build them with the same "good enough" attitude the factory workers have on the low end lines... i have never used caulk of any type on my truss rods...but if you do,use SILICON caulk..not latex...silicoln will not absorb moisture and mold like latex will... but if you have a choice,leave your caulking for your bathtub.(silicon,again...same reason) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 i use them exclusively...18" length...i bought the router bit and it is quality...i estimate you can rout probably 20 or more necks with one bit if you treat it right... and as has been proved over and over...stewmac is NOT the only place that sells that size router bit. don't use the 1/4" bit...the whole purpose of building a guitar is to reduce the permitted tolerances,not to build them with the same "good enough" attitude the factory workers have on the low end lines... i have never used caulk of any type on my truss rods...but if you do,use SILICON caulk..not latex...silicoln will not absorb moisture and mold like latex will... but if you have a choice,leave your caulking for your bathtub.(silicon,again...same reason) ← I'd say you can get considerably more than 20 necks out of one bit, unless you're making them all out of something that eats edge tools for breakfast (and none of the commonly used woods do, really). Probably more like 100, with a re-sharpen in there somewhere, if not even more. With router bits, depending on the wood, a 1/4" bit may leave with a smaller than 1/4" channel (plywood dado bits do this on purpose, I believe), and honestly, if you seat the rod tightly somehow anyway (I generally add a tiny bit of scotch tape to the edges so I have to push it in firmly. No rattles there. Don't like silicon because if it gets anywhere where finish needs to go, it's bad. Very bad. So be careful if you do use it folks!) This said, I don't think the expense for the router bit is huge or terribly outta line, so I've got one, and I'm happy I do :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 i use mostly maple and mahogany for my necks...but the reason i have to estimate is because i chewed through my first one by using it as a template bit for routing all of my cavities on an all maple body i made...plus a few other bodies as well... BUT since the finish goes nowhere near the truss rod ends,why is that even a consideration?especially considering the fact that you rout the channel before you do any sanding(at least i do) only thing i have ever wrapped my truss rod in was saran wrap(one layer) to keep any excess glue from fouling anything. but the main reason i think you should reduce your tolerances is for the simple fact that a neck with no extra space anywhere and with everything fit tightly has no dead spots or strange vibrations anywhere... if you build one with no tape,caulk,or other cheats commonly used to make up for a less than perfect fit,you will feel the differance as soon as you string it up and play it,and you will never do it any other way again...push those truss rods in snug,make it absolutely flush with the fingerboard side of the neck,and you will notice the extra resonance as soon as you play it,like i said...close fits need no tape or caulk. any way...that's how i feel about it...i am just not much for reccomending loose tolerances...and the bottom line is that is what tape and caulk is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemleggat Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I read the stew mac fact sheet about Hot rods and was kinda confused about what silicon to use, is it the common sealer stuff you use in windows etc? Whats it purpose? Why dont you just epoxy the ends in place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Why dont you just epoxy the ends in place? because epoxy can seep into the threads and foul them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemleggat Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Is the sillycone used to adhere them then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 no it"s not for adhesion...it's to fill the gap created from a loose fit.it keeps the rod from rattling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemleggat Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 right cool, i have one of the rods and i got the the router bit too, should a little bit of silicon be used in the middle to stop them hitting off each other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 i never do...but you can.if i was going to put silicoln anywhere i would put a dab there...not between the rods...just around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Guys, I am pretty sure the silicone is just to prevent unwanted noise from the truss rod vibrating about in the slot. Not at the blocks, but around the rods themselves(as they are thinner than the blocks). I place a few loose wraps of teflon tape around the rods. If the rod is applying tension it may never even be an issue, but if the rod is in a basically neutral state I could see some vibration happening. I think its just insurance, not so much a cheat. Peace, Rich P.S. I dig those LMI rods with the flat stock. They require less depth and I like the idea of flat stock against the back of the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadhouse Blues Posted August 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Thanks all you guys for commenting. I made my order of the 1/8" allen hotrod at 18". I suppose I'll see what bits my friend has at the shop, and compare them to the trussrod's measurements. If worst comes to worst, I can order the bit from stewmac, but I just don't know that I'll be making enough guitars to buy the extra bit. If I was sure I'd be making a lot, I'd just buy it rather than check the shop. Thanks guys. -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Although the rods are cushioned with PVC tubing, we recommend extra cushioning at the nuts to eliminate the possibility of rod rattle. Apply a small amount of silicone bathtub sealer in the slot at the double nuts, then press the rod as deeply into the slot as possible. Use only enough silicone for minimal squeeze-out. A spot or two along the double rods can also be cushioned by a little sealer. this is what the stewmac instructions say...they say put it at the nuts...i agree that the center is a good place to put it...i think that makes good sense...insurance,like you say...personally i would not use it at the nuts...not unless i screwed up the rout by just a hair in depth.. maybe on the one i am doing right now i will make the rout only wide enough for the rods...just using the wider bit at the two ends...how cool would that be? i think i will give that a try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 First off, everyone has given you great information about the Hot Rod. You should really consider what kind of neck your going to make though. Here are some questions to think about. - What kind of headstock are you going to have. Angled (PRS, Gibson) or Straight (Fender, etc.)? If your going with a straight headstock, then you need read up on how to install a Hot Rod in a neck like that. It's not hard if you know what to do. - How thin are you wanting your guitar neck to be? You need at least 1/8" wood left between the truss slot and back of neck, so you'll want to figure out how thin you can go before you start. If I'm building a thin neck, I go with this truss rod from Allied Lutherie which only needs a 3/8" deep slot instead of the 7/16" needed for the Stew Mac one. So your saving 1/16" wood from the slot, which means you can make the neck thinner. LMI also makes great truss rods which only need 3/8" deep slot. Not trying to confuse you, but save you some headaches down the road. Especially if you haven't thought about it, and was planning on making a thin neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Wes, I didn't catch that they say to cusion the nuts before. I have always had a very snug fit and would have been hard pressed to get anything around the nuts, but they certainly recommend it. Thanks for pointing it out mister. Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay5 Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 If you have to get the bit for the hotrod, get it here. All the bits I have gotten from whiteside have been great. I use a 3/16" spiral bit from them for the LMI rods I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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