W.o.d. Breaks Loose!

[Ben]

OK, thanks for clearing that up

[Guest AlexVDL]

.

[Drak]

You are correct, oh Master of the Bowling Ball Finish

But the rules are the rules, and W.O.D. must eat, it is 'the way of the world'.

PS, you know, I never see anyone else giving their scrap crap away either, there must be a reason, I just find my crap humerous, the rest out there must just go quietly into the woodpiles of the world with 'nary a wimper.

Think of all those threads about projects that get started then you never see them done, you think those don't get scrapped too?

[Inisheer]

BTW, she now has a 'little' ( ) sister, Opehlia, which you shall meet in a few days I think, along with a few new brothers and sisters.

OK, that makes me happy. I'll still miss hammerhead, but I'm glad there will be others....Others that will be even better! Looking forward to meeting the new family.

[Ben]

If you made two big delicious sandwiches but you put too much mustard on it to your liking.. would you throw it away or give it to some poor homeless people who you see trying to survive every day?

Nice analogy

Couldnt you burn the word DEFECT in a pickup cavity or something so it wont reflect badly on you an then sell it on eBay as a charity auction?

Just an idea...

[Drak]

Nothing in the world stopping you from doing that if and when you want to do it.

Personally, I don't need any ideas, I'm perfectly happy doing it the way I do it, been doing it for 12 years this way, and am quite content with it actually.

[Myka Guitars]

PS, you know, I never see anyone else giving their scrap crap away either, there must be a reason, I just find my crap humerous, the rest out there must just go quietly into the woodpiles of the world with 'nary a wimper.

I think you are right on Drak. One of mentors Harry Fleishman told me to "never let a turd out the door". I have so far 2 complete guitars, 3 necks, and a pile of fingerboards that are below my standards. One of the necks may be used for a prototype testing guitar; an experiemental axe. The rest could all be fixed but they never will be. I too believe in moving on and learning from my mistakes. I don't have WOD nearby but I do have some lighter fluid! In fact a good friend of mine has a couple of his own projects that his wife won't let him destroy. We are planning a little cookout soon to take care of that.

I have to say that the defect idea is horrible. If a potential client saw that they just might think I build defective guitars. It is better to nip them in the bud than to let them loose in the world. Think about it.

~David

ps. One of the neck is just lacking binding and the fret ends show. I don't like the look.

[Ben]

Yeah your probably right.. its just so upsetting to see it wasted...

Stop making mistakes and hopefully mr WOD will starve to death

[Mickguard]

.

[Drak]

Stop making mistakes and hopefully mr WOD will starve to death

HE heard you say that.

[Ben]

Well tell him that if he gets hold of Desdemona I'll go to your 'castle' and slay his ass.

[Nitefly SA]

HAHAHAHA

[WezV]

I finish up my flawed guitars as cheaply as possible and keep them for myself to play, although i usually end up stealing the parts off them within a few months for whatever new project i am working on.

Anything other than a cosmetic flaw gets scrapped pretty quickly now i am trying to sell these things, although i think its important for people to learn how to fix their mistakes rather than just trash things as soon as they have a problem. I have shown a few people how to build guitars, the first guy i showed how to slot a fretboard ended up cutting the last fret slot at a slight angle. He was ready to throw it agaisnt the wall and give in there and then. I grabbed the bottle of superglue and a sliver of wood and five minutes later we had the slot re-cut and a nearly invisible repair, it only pokes out from the fret about 0.5mm. That was fine for his first guitar but not for anything you are trying to sell and put your reputation on.

[Drak]

I think its important for people to learn how to fix their mistakes rather than just trash things as soon as they have a problem.

Completely agree. Fixing mistakes is part of the trade, I do it all the time, and am quite good at it.

And if one chooses to keep half-baked guitars to play for onesself, I'm quite good with that also, certainly their choice, but my personal standards are -quite- a bit higher than that...as a matter of fact, WAY higher than that. I have no use whatsoever for half-done guitars full of mistakes, my guitars are Quality axes, or they're trash, no middle ground, and I'm good with that philosophy.

[Mattia]

I admire the hardline position, but while my standards are pretty damn high, they're higher for guitars I build for others, as it were. I'm only just at a point now where I'm comfortable enough with my skills to build for people who aren't me, and it's friends paying cost (plus a 'tip' if they like it) for now. I build slowly, haven't got *that* many instruments under my belt, but I pay attention to all the details.

My early, slightly 'half-baked' guitars (in terms of minor detailing; they play great, comfortable, tone's there, feel's there, all that, but they have flaws I can see quite clearly) are here to stay, and there's here to stay with me. They're never, ever, ever going to be given away to someone else. And since I learned woodworking as I learned to build, I'm happy with that. I also don't think perfection, as such, is achievable. I strive for the illusion of perfection, and errors that are only seen because the builder knows they're there. That's where fixing msitakes comes in. I'll get there someday.

I'm also not big on revisionist history, so I really doubt I'll ever go back and fix the little snafus here and there (honestly, mostly binding, and I'm better at finishing now than I used to be), because they're a reminder of where I've come from, and where I am now. I've scrapped two necks to date, as well as my first fancy schmany inalid fingerboard (it's sitting around somewhere as a piece of pretty shiny abalone encrusted ebony of lumpiness). And there's also a carved top and back, flamed maple and mahogany doublecut, which has nothing wrong with the carves, the top, back, but I'm unhappy with the headstock shape, I really don't like the inlay (first attempt at a vine, and it's clunky and unrefined), the neck joint's a bit uglier than I'd like (and I don't want to burst to hide it), the binding's naff, and it remains in a perpetually unfinished state. And don't feel the slightest need to do anything about that. Right now, it serves as a hat stand, and a reminder of where I draw my lines.

I have *slightly* lower standards for my scrap guitars (which I build for fun, when I have leftover bits of wood too small to do a 'proper' guitar with) when it comes to perfect materials, but that's the nature of the beast.

[Drak]

I admire the hardline position, but while my standards are pretty damn high, they're higher for guitars I build for others

That's good, and brings up a point, that I am my own customer.

This is nothing but a great hobby for me, nothing more, so I can set my standards wherever I wish, and as I am the end user and the builder, the conversations between builder and user happen -pretty quick-, let me tell you .

I also enjoy having these W.O.D. conversations about once a year, it shows who's new around here, because we've been having this same conversation as long as I've been a member here, over and over and over, but I like to ehh, 'prompt' the newer people to voice their own beliefs, this issue seems to really draw guys out of the woodwork to take a stand, and it's fun to see what these conversations bring out in people. I however, maintain the exact same stand that I've had since day 1.

AND I no longer post incitful and riotous pictures of me burning them.

But I would ask the question: why are you the builder any less entitled to a spectacularly wonderful guitar than someone who is paying you money for one? That baffles me why any of you would consider yourself less than entitled or worthy to a SUPERB guitar, not accepting an unloved second?

I only want the best I am capable of building, nothing less.

[Southpa]

I can still picture you 30 years from now. An old man...with a long white beard...sitting in a room full of guitars...and playing a bassoon.

[Drak]

I have imagined the same scenario, except with a Pan flute instead, and a tattered picture of Zamfir on the old cobbled wall.

[Inisheer]

I also enjoy having these W.O.D. conversations about once a year, it shows who's new around here, because we've been having this same conversation as long as I've been a member here

True. I just found this site a few months ago, and might not be privy to all the previous conversations. But ever since I've joined PG you have been an inspiration to me. So sorry if I am a little upset when you throw away things that I would love to have made. But all is good- I respect the rules of the 'castle.'

why are you the builder any less entitled to a spectacularly wonderful guitar than someone who is paying you money for one?

I couldn't agree more on this. If people are willing to make a quality instrument to sell, then why should they settle for anything less for themselves? I would care just as much and/or more if I was making an instrument for personal use.

[Mattia]

But I would ask the question: why are you the builder any less entitled to a spectacularly wonderful guitar than someone who is paying you money for one? That baffles me why any of you would consider yourself less than entitled or worthy to a SUPERB guitar, not accepting an unloved second?

I only want the best I am capable of building, nothing less.

Fair question. I guess I consider each of my guitars to be more or less the best I'm capable of doing with the materials selected at any given point in time. That early efforts (= start of the learning curve) aren't quite as flash as the later ones is of little consequence. And, y'know, there's that never-to-be-finished instrument that's got several (think about 5) hundred dollars in it, from a time when I had to work much longer to scrounge that amount together, a few hundred hours of work, that's Just Not Worth Finishing, so there it stays. I learned plenty of stuff on that that made the next builds better. I tend to try to push my limits with each new instrument, each one's also pretty different, so it throws up new challenges and new opportunities for mistakes, but generally (knock wood) nothing that ultimately affects the outcome significantly. Basically, I can live with a more visible repair on something I'm making for myself, while I wouldn't accept the same kind of thing on something I 'brand' and let out into the world, if you will. Building for others also represents different challenges, because while I know my mind and opinions, I gotta cater to theirs. I also build as much for the process as for the result; I enjoy the act of creation itself, almost more than the finished guitar (when that's done, after all, it gets played quite a bit, but my attention swiftly turns to building more and seeing where I can improve stuff).

Edited June 12, 2006 by Mattia

[Southpa]

It all depends on what kind of goals you set for yourself. Success is bittersweet in most cases. Someone once said (I forget who) "The road to success is like climbing a huge stinking, steaming mountain of sh*t to smell the wonderful rose growing at the top. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases, by the time you've reached the top you've lost your sense of smell!" Drak just happens to be climbing a bigger pile than a lot of other folks.

[Mickguard]

I strive for the illusion of perfection, and errors that are only seen because the builder knows they're there. That's where fixing msitakes comes in. I'll get there someday.

For me, all the exciting things in life happen in that little gap between imperfection and perfection.

But that little gap changes for everyone --things that bug me about a guitar might not bother you at all. And the things that bother you, might just leave me scratching my head.

And everyone's reaction to the other side of the gap is going to vary as well.

I'm actually more on Drak's side of things --I don't actually destroy the guitar though, I just take it apart and put it away in the Dungeon. Life imprisonment is far more cruel than capital punishment. And I'm against the death penalty as a matter of principle

[ToneMonkey]

I'm in need of a cheapo electric to practice my strumming on. I've got my acoustic but after a while, the wifey will get a bit miffed with the noise (rightly so because I'm crap). I've got the polished-turd-ocaster but it's really on it's last legs. I've also got a wedding to pay for so funds are low even for a second hand POS.

I'm going to just get a body (and neck if I need one, but I've got a couple so fingers crossed) to practice on. Chances are that it wont even have the pups installed for a year or so (no chance of being able to afford the pups, or the amp for that matter until after the wedding).

So if anyone is going to kill a body off, please spare a thought for those of us who are skint and after something. I could end up with one of Draks masterpieces albeit with a slight imperfection or I could end up spending more money on some chinese plywood strat copy.

Saying that, I've got a neck that made the Floor of Death so I'm not really one to talk. Your guitars, you can do what you like with them, see sig below WOD stories are always amusing too

[Setch]

So what happened to the Eggle? Looked like it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to get that playing in a few days.

[ToneMonkey]

I'm after something that I don't mind floating around the front room. The Eggle is staying safe from the usual Friday night drunkards that congregate in my front room. It's in mint condition and I'd like to keep it that way.

I'm not expecting it to get trashed but accidents happen and I know that it'll be the Eggle that gets it first.