weaponepsilon Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Yet another thread started, or taken over by Drummerdude, where he refuses to read replies by people who are respected around here, which has turned into a massive argument, when it should have been a two line reply, or better still, researched in any luthiery/woodworking book, or a quick search... Why do people bother? Why do people try to help those, that dont want to help themselves? I know that I'm a nickel short and an hour late here, but this isnt as big of a waste of time as some may think. I was searching around about glue info on the forum and almost started a new thread until I found this one. This actually has a lot of useful knowledge from actual users of these particular products. For once we have a thread on the subject that did not dissolve into a screaming match or pissing contest resulting in hard feelings. If I may suggest that this particular thread get pinned for future reference so that no more threads are needlessly started on the subject of Glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamboMadCow Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 (edited) Gorilla Glue - this is a polyurethane glue. The main feature of this of interest to guitar builders is that you can sand it and it won't build up on the sandpaper like traditional aliphatic glues will (see below). It's a pain in the butt to deal with gorilla glue and is generally not worth the time. Hey guys. I've been a long time browser and decided to start asking questions. What's wrong with Gorilla Glue exactly. I read another post where someone said to not use it when joining wood but didn't clarify why. This post said that it's just a pain in the behind. Is there other reason for why not to use it or is it just too high maintenance to worry about? Edit: I'm curious because I've used Gorilla Glue on a few small house projects and I've never seemed to have a problem with it. Of course, they weren't as extensive or demanding as building a guitar either. Edited June 14, 2007 by RamboMadCow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaponepsilon Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 To add to the controversy, Dan Erlwine says this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Hey guys. I've been a long time browser and decided to start asking questions. What's wrong with Gorilla Glue exactly. I read another post where someone said to not use it when joining wood but didn't clarify why. This post said that it's just a pain in the behind. Is there other reason for why not to use it or is it just too high maintenance to worry about? Edit: I'm curious because I've used Gorilla Glue on a few small house projects and I've never seemed to have a problem with it. Of course, they weren't as extensive or demanding as building a guitar either. Simply put, it can be hard to work with for people that are not experienced with the glue itself. Why? It foams up like crazy, I think it expands up to 4 times the size which can be really confusing to new guys. That's extra unneeded joint cleanup. I don't know, it adheres damn well, but I just wouldn't use it in a wood ~> wood situation. However, it is a poly glue. It will glue disimilar objects (wood ~> metal, metal ~> plastic) together extremely well. I'll give this glue a shot next time I glue carbon/steel rods in one of my necks, although I do not expect top notch results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 To add to the controversy, Dan Erlwine says this. Nothing controversial about HHG. HHG is one of the most time tested and proven glues you could possibly choose. Only down side is that you need to understand how to mix it, heat it up, and work quickly. HHG has the added advantage of rapid cure time(if you want faster assembly). It cleans up extreamly well. and it is a great choice if future repairs of the joint may be needed. If you are efficient, and learn how to use HHG it will be your glue of choice. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundAt11 Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Hide Glue does not dry in "20 seconds" as one fellow said. As long as you've got your clamps in place and pieces ready to join, it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to clamp your pieces and it will take longer than that for the glue to cool and harden. It's also much easier to clean up, as it's "crumbly" when it squeezes out, so you can scrape it off with a knife. Some hot water or rubbing alcohol (and a knife) will clean off the rest of the excess. If I'm building a guitar for myself, it's hide glue all the way. If you're in a hurry, Titebond is quick and easy, but think how long you'll have that guitar and if the few minutes of time saved is worth the possible decrease in resonance (not to mention the lack of serviceability and it's difficult cleanup). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 there are many PVA's some that fill and bond and others that bond disimalar materials and everything in between. They all have there place. for instance you don't want to use titebond on a a truss gussett, as it will be exposed to high heat in summer while in the attic of a house, whereas a PVA 400 will work great in that environment and has the shear strength required for that application. Then we get into epoxies and ureas, polyies and god knows what??? So I suggest that maybe someone would take on the task of preparing a glue tutorial and do some realistic research on the subject and post it for all to see and understand. ANYONE UP TO THE CHALLANGE? It seems that this thead is a good example as to the many differences in opinions on glue. SO WHAT GLUE IS BEST FOR WHAT? SO Who wants to collaborate with whom to find the answers? Don't be shy! Enquiring minds want to know? LOL:) just my .02cents Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 MiKro: there is some test data in the MIMF library on various glue types, and Frank Ford has a little chart outlining what glue's best for what task at Frets.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) This is what Frank Ford thinks: http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Da.../gluechart.html He has actually made some exctensive testing of glues to back up those opinions. Just can't find the link right now, but browse through his www.frets.com pages and you will find it. the local crap glue works about as well as the adhesive on the back of a postage stamp. You are stuck with the crap. Heh heh, actually the glue on the back of stamps are mostly ..... hide glue! EDIT: Ah, I found it: http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Da...t/gluetest.html Edited June 15, 2007 by SwedishLuthier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneMonkey Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Maybe the crap European glue explains why the interiors of French cars falls off. Anyway, I bought some glue not too dissimilar to Gorilla Glue called Lumberjack Glue and it was brilliant. Here's the stuff: http://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-324991/everbui...-gel-310ml.html Cleaning the joints was a bit of hastle and it expanded like crazy, but I thought it quite good. Impossible to remove from the carpet though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwood999 Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 well ok ive tried em all hide glue (hot) titebond ® all of them Polyurethane glue the ones that did a rotten job are titebond ® hide glue>thumbs down, titebond 1,2,and3 worked good for me(NOTE!!) in my opinion if you leave a guitar(and if it were one of mine) in a 175 d car trunk i would not warranty it. Its just a stupid thing to do. .as for Polyurethane glue works for me and also works for Mr Terwilliger of Jet guitars so i think basically its a preference thing what you best like to use and what works for you. OK OK i saw the article on the titebond® VS hide glue OK lets be real yes it failed in a what 350D come on folks (dont get me wrong i use it) but what im saying is -some of the best guitar makers in the world use titebond® so are THEY wrong - no it works for them and i do respect everyones opinion here. just wanted to put my two cents in here guys Stol guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwood999 Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 LOL the poor man just asked what glues were best and the can of worms split WIDE OPEN sorrry i just have to laugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 MiKro: there is some test data in the MIMF library on various glue types, and Frank Ford has a little chart outlining what glue's best for what task at Frets.com. Thanks Mattia, There's some good info for those that want to know. I was stirring the pot so to speak,LOL:))) Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 I was looking at that Erlewine link about the HHG, and it's got me wondering about thinning epoxy for a situation like that. I know epoxy can be thinned with at least a couple different solvents, but I don't know if doing that reduces the strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 40,000 posts on glue, what a sticky mess Titebond or a similar glue is your best bet (PVA), Color brand setup time matter little. Coat both sides of each piece before clamping a thin coat do not go crazy. I like to clean up as much squeeze out as possible before it sets up so keep a damp rag handy or scrape it down when the glue dries. A personel preference. Dont over tighten the clamps or you will remove too much glue and weaken the joint. There are many other glues and other industrial adhesives outside the scope of this lengthy discussion. Buy a fresh bottle is my only advise and if you are unsure of your abilities use a slow set version. Woodenspoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 now with my post we are at 65 replies. AMAZING HOW GLUE IS, WE SEEM TO BE STUCK. LMAO!!!!!! MK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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