Build #2

[Ryan D]

Hey Xanthus, I don't know if this helps, but Guitarfrenzy used black epoxy grainfiller on his Strat. http://www.desopolis.com/midwest/Strat10.htm

It's about half-way down the page.

[Xanthus]

Thanks for the link, Ryan! I'm pretty sold on the Tru-Oil, unless I can get a body shop to just clear the whole thing with whatever paint they have leftover. My dad knows a few guys who work at car shops. Tru-Oil isn't hard, and if my first build is anything of an indication, the V is going to take some inevitable bumps and grinds. Clear poly would keep the wood and still be pretty tough. And the added fact that I wouldn't be doing any of the spray? Priceless.

With the Tru-Oil, though, I'm still in the dark (or maybe the gray, right now) on grainfilling. I don't feel like using epoxy, because I don't want to sand THAT much . People have been saying they grainfill with the tru-oil, building it into a slurry. To get a greater contrast, I'd rather fill with a dark grainfill and oil that, but I don't know if that would be possible, mixing the grainfill and oil.

I'm still a ways away, so I've got time to sort it all out.

In other news, my amp comes in on Wednesday! Party time!

[Ryan D]

Nice!

What amp (apologies if it's already been mentioned)?

[Xanthus]

Carvin V3 212 combo, with g12t-75 speakers.

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...=35057&st=0

[Xanthus]

Hey all. It's been a hectic month, very unsatisfying. Been trying to get my unruly amp to cooperate (dunno what changed since I first got it...), sort out new pickups for build #1, constructing a recording booth, buying a mic, and finishing up build #2.

I realize sometimes that my theoretical knowledge sometimes outweighs the practical side of things. Take, for example, the volute I tried to carve today. Apparently, I can't think in three dimensions, because no matter what I tried, nothing came out right. Right now, it's a complete mess. I need to thickness the headstock because it's still too thick, so I'll be running it through the drum sander tomorrow. That will put the curve back on, at least.

I've read a lot about neck carving (which I still have a ton of trouble getting right), but really nothing about the actual CARVING of a volute. I don't know why I can't grasp how to go about it. I know one complication I'm having is that the "hump" is only on the part of the headstock that's in line with the neck, i.e. not on the headstock wings. That was a stupid mistake I made right from step one. But working around that, I still can't get it to flow smoothly.

Does anyone have any tips or techniques to help a brother out? Working on the project today has gotten me in a weird, depressed funk, and I really would love to put in some quality work tomorrow that'll get me back on my feet again.

In the meanwhile, I'm going to go watch Perry's construction videos on YouTube.

Thanks, everyone.

[Supernova9]

Hey all. It's been a hectic month, very unsatisfying. Been trying to get my unruly amp to cooperate (dunno what changed since I first got it...), sort out new pickups for build #1, constructing a recording booth, buying a mic, and finishing up build #2.

I realize sometimes that my theoretical knowledge sometimes outweighs the practical side of things. Take, for example, the volute I tried to carve today. Apparently, I can't think in three dimensions, because no matter what I tried, nothing came out right. Right now, it's a complete mess. I need to thickness the headstock because it's still too thick, so I'll be running it through the drum sander tomorrow. That will put the curve back on, at least.

I've read a lot about neck carving (which I still have a ton of trouble getting right), but really nothing about the actual CARVING of a volute. I don't know why I can't grasp how to go about it. I know one complication I'm having is that the "hump" is only on the part of the headstock that's in line with the neck, i.e. not on the headstock wings. That was a stupid mistake I made right from step one. But working around that, I still can't get it to flow smoothly.

Does anyone have any tips or techniques to help a brother out? Working on the project today has gotten me in a weird, depressed funk, and I really would love to put in some quality work tomorrow that'll get me back on my feet again.

In the meanwhile, I'm going to go watch Perry's construction videos on YouTube.

Thanks, everyone.

When I'm making a volute, I do it in two stages. There are two curves to a volute - the first is the hump that gives it thickness, running along the shaft of the neck. I cut this first when I cut the profile of the neck. The second curve is the one across the neck from left to right that then rounds it over. I cut this when I'm shaping the neck, gradually rounding it over until smooth.

[Mattia]

Sadly, I don't have any good process pics of volute carving - nothing more than 'look, rough volute, and now quasi finished volute!', so that's no help.

The way I approach it is this:

1. Mark the high point on your volute (roughly at the nut, for me) with a line perpendicular to the neck shaft

2. Sand (drum sander, beltsander, thickness sander, your choice) the back of the headstock flat and in so doing create the curved lip at the headstock end. Looks like this at this point. Except probably without backstraps:

3. Now use a rasp to shape the part of the neck by the nut to *roughly* where you want it; leave it a little oversized, as you'll fine-tune that last little bit when the whole neck is done, and you can never add wood, only remove it. I tend to go to within 1mm of the target thickness, and not worry too much about the profile other than to make sure it's 'rounded'. Looks like this:

4. At this point, I usually rough in the neck shaft, as I feel a completed neck helps me visualise and feel the flow for the volute carve.

5. Use a half-round rasp/cabinetmaker's rasp to create a gentle curve from neck shaft to volute peak. The bit you've done this too is now sort of a mirror image of the headstock side of the volute, just very short. Not rounded over yet.

5. Now comes the volute carve! Draw the smiley shape on the back of the headstock, in the shape you want it, and then use the half-round side of a cabinetmaker's rasp to remove the stock. It's sort of like dressing fret ends after you hog away the bulk: roll the rasp over the volute. I start with the rasp almost flat on the back of the neck, and then 'roll' it towards the headstock wing tips. Aim for a flat, fair curve first, then gently start rounding the curve in the other (front to back) dimension. Sometimes I carve from headstock wing to neck shaft (mostly, actually), sometimes the other direct, depending on the grain direction, risk of tearout, etc. This picture is about the best I can do, and shows a rough carved volute, quite clearly highlighting where I have and have not carved:

The neck is still very much 'in the rough', as I glue the board and finalize the carve after a rough-carving stage, so the lines (other than the back of the headstock) are not terribly smooth, but it gives you an idea. I hope.

Honestly, though? Make a headstock end of the neck out of scrap and practice if you don't get an easy 'feel' for what it is you should be doing.

[Xanthus]

You saved my life, guys. Really did. Thanks for the great pictorial, Mattia! Why don't we have a volute tutorial on the main site?

Don't mind the sanding burns

Here's a picture of about 40 minutes of progress, and most of that was setting up the drum sander and running the headstock through it. I think I was right about what was giving me the most difficulty. Because the volute "swoosh" didn't extend to the wings of the headstock, I couldn't picture the curving lines as easily, because they wouldn't have extended all the way. Once I thicknessed the headstock down (and I ended up moving the volute back a bit, but no big deal) the swooshes came back. Then it was just roughing it out with my half-round file. The curve is a bit treble-side-heavy, but it's all sanding from here on out, so I'm not too concerned.

Off to make some depth gauges for the carve, and maybe to buy a spokeshave. Thanks again!

[killemall8]

that looks dang good! glad you got it figured out.

[Donut Man]

Looks good!

My volute (or lack thereof) is still a mess right now, thanks for the pictorial.

[jmrentis]

That did come out nice, good job! Will you be capping or backstraping it? When I did I had some issues bending until I went with a homemade bending iron, with that method I had no issues bending the figured bubinga for my backstrap, with that and a caul sanded to fit the headstock+volute it worked out fine. You got a good match on the scarf, meaning it lined up nicely, but the color/grain show difference which is why I asked about capping it. Anyhow, nice work, hope your month improves! J

[Xanthus]

Thanks, everyone! I am very pleased with the way it is turning out. I did some more work after the picture was taken, bringing the bulk of the neck down to size. I went to Woodcraft intending to get a spokeshave. But I was sitting there, kinda turned off by the prices (I forgot online prices are discounted to make up for shipping), and thought that I really did most of the bulk with my rasps I could probably do the rest with sandpaper.

So I just bought what is hopefully my last pack of sandpaper until I do the finish. And I still don't know what type I'm going for, either. But that's down the road a ways.

J, I'm not going to backstrap it, if only for the plain fact that front-strapping was a bitch. Granted, I did use an 1/8" piece of walnut veneer, and it was on a flat surface, but still hahaha. I like the look of the unmatched grain, that little bit of sapwood(?) that runs through it. It only goes about halfway down the neck, but it gives the neck character. I figured, that cool part is already completely covered up in front by the headstock cap and fretboard, I should leave the "oddity" exposed for everyone to see. Thanks for the well-wishes too, after putting in some quality work down cellar the day got much better

If all goes well I should have the neck finished tomorrow, and the bevels done at the beginning of next week. Then it's just strange things, like countersinking the screw holes for the pickup switch, fitting a piece of veneer to make up the thickness on the relatively short Earvana nut, and drilling the pickup ring holes and tuner pin holes. Odd, miscellaneous stuff.

Thanks again for the support, everyone!

[Xanthus]

It was fantastic out today, weather-wise, so I spent the entire day outside sanding the guitar. I got the body sanded to 100-grit. I'm debating on whether to go up to 150 before or after the bevels. Probably afterwards, who knows.

I have a feeling my neck profile is going to be a bit too thick for my liking. 1" at the 12th fret? Too much? I'd like to have strings on it before I hack it down some more, just to make sure that it's too thick. But that'd mean putting in the bushings for the bridge/tail, and putting tuners on. The bushings won't come out afterwards. Would it be advisable to finish the guitar with the bushings in, if I were careful about taping them off?

Speaking of finishing, I'm pretty set on some type of oil finish, because it's quick and easy. Probably Tru-Oil. But, I'll need to fill the grain because the mahog and walnut have such large pores...... right?

I also want to darken the overall color of the wood. So, would I be better off using black grain filler, or clear filler and black stain? I feel that clear filler and black stain would give more even/consistent results.

And can one put tru-oil over stained wood without any interactions?

If anyone could help me out with the finish questions, I'd really appreciate it. I wish I had internet access on my own computer, because I have a whole folder of bookmarked topics I've been meaning to read through...

[killemall8]

why would you have to leave the bushings? they shouldnt be permanent anyway. they will come out with just the prongs of a hammer. i would never ever try to finish and sand a guitar with the bushings in.

[Xanthus]

Well, of course they wouldn't be PERMANENT, but they'd be a pain to remove, and I don't feel like taking the chance scratching them or messing the body up if I chose to take them out. I don't know if the post holes would need to be filled and redrilled afterwards, either. I figure that since I won't be spraying a finish on, if I tape them up and just be careful, I'll be fine.

[killemall8]

it would be incredibly hard to do it any finishing with the studs in. you wont be able to sand anything evenly. i put my posts in and take them out maybe 7-8 times during a build. you wouldnt need to fill and redril. it doesnt destroy or strip the wood.

[fryovanni]

it would be incredibly hard to do it any finishing with the studs in. you wont be able to sand anything evenly. i put my posts in and take them out maybe 7-8 times during a build. you wouldnt need to fill and redril. it doesnt destroy or strip the wood.

Why would you put in and take out press fit studs 7-8 times during a build?, or maybe these are not press fit studs?

Rich

[Mattia]

You want to take them in/out as little as possible, IMO, as each time you do they go in slightly differently and sit that little bit looser. If you're doing it once, to test fit a neck and bridge while building, that's one thing.

I would, however, take them out for finishing in this case. For a recessed floyd (f'r instance) I have no problems leaving them in and masking while finishing, since I'm not going to be spending crazy amounts of effort bringing the trem cavity to insanely high gloss. On anything you need to sand properly, especially if the studs are not flush and you do not want to get sanding marks on the finish/sand through the plating, pull them.

[killemall8]

it would be incredibly hard to do it any finishing with the studs in. you wont be able to sand anything evenly. i put my posts in and take them out maybe 7-8 times during a build. you wouldnt need to fill and redril. it doesnt destroy or strip the wood.

Why would you put in and take out press fit studs 7-8 times during a build?, or maybe these are not press fit studs?

Rich

test fits, test line ups, test neck angle, action tests, stuff like that. i would never just drill the holes, and never test it once before finishing the whole guitar.

[fryovanni]

it would be incredibly hard to do it any finishing with the studs in. you wont be able to sand anything evenly. i put my posts in and take them out maybe 7-8 times during a build. you wouldnt need to fill and redril. it doesnt destroy or strip the wood.

Why would you put in and take out press fit studs 7-8 times during a build?, or maybe these are not press fit studs?

Rich

test fits, test line ups, test neck angle, action tests, stuff like that. i would never just drill the holes, and never test it once before finishing the whole guitar.

One time in the white, to set the neck(angle, alignment) makes sense. Just seemed like 7-8 times was a bit much.

[Xanthus]

I tested the bushings for the bridge, and I think I'm going to have to redrill the holes. The bridge just doesn't sit cleanly enough, and I don't want to force it. The holes are just a bit wide, just wide enough for it to be an issue. It's too bad, but I'd rather have it 100%.

Anyways, things accomplished:

-Bevels

-Control covers

-Truss rod cover

-Recarved neck

It's nigh midnight over here, and I don't know where I misplaced the card to take my photos off my phone, but I wanted to put together a pictorial on how I did the bevels, so someone would be able to learn from my build. I'll try and get to it tomorrow, but I'll type the tut out here now.

Bevels on a straight side: i.e. the outside edges of the Rhoads. You're going to need a half-round file, not too thin. The one I used was a little over a knuckle's width wide. Draw your finish lines in pencil on the sides and top of the guitar. Starting at the thickest part of the proposed bevel, use the flat side of the file and file down a channel that just barely reaches the finish lines. (1) Remember, you want to leave room for sanding. The channel should only be as wide as the file you're using. Once this channel is done, start another one further up the side, one file-width away from the previous. Repeat the same method to bring it close to the line, and repeat this method up the side of the guitar until the channel is too shallow for you to bother. (2) Then, start at the end of the bevel again and use the flat side of the file to shave down the triangular mountain things in between the channels you carved. These don't need to be as accurate or as 'to-the-line' as the ones you did earlier, just knock off enough of the mountain to get at it with sandpaper. (3) Once you're satisfied, wrap the file in about 2 revolutions of sandpaper. I started with 80 and moved up from there. You can start at 100 to take off less material. Put the file lengthwise against your rough bevel and balance it with your thumbs on the file and your fingers riding up against the sides of the guitar. Sand until you knock down the mountains and they're level with the channels you carved. Redraw your finish lines if you have to. So long as you make sure to keep the file at an angle and not let it roll (of course, change sandpaper as necessary) you should have a perfect bevel every time.

Bevels on a curved side: i.e. the inside bevels on a Rhoads. Do the same steps above, except use the round side of the file instead. Only leave 1/2-file width in between channels, because the curved bevels change angle often. (4) Knock down the mountains, and wrap the file in sandpaper. Hold the curved side to the bevel, perpendicular to the bevel, and sand to desired line. Be extra careful not to roll the file on the curved edge (like I did..... ugh), because the length of the file balancing on the skinny bevel makes it more prone to doing so.

That's about it, really. I'll get the pics off my camera to supplement the instructions.

I'm not entirely satisfied with the curved edge bevels as they came out, but you can't put more wood back on, so I'm going to have to live with them. The bevel experience alone has motivated me strongly for my third build. I want to finally make a guitar that I'd be proud handing to a fellow player for them to inspect. Just gotta stop with the amateur mistakes, it really irks me.

I recarved the neck and took a bit off the thickness. It's about 1" at the 14th fret, iirc, since I've wrapped up for the night. It's a bit thicker than the carves on my Carvins. I played a new Gibson Explorer and really liked the neck feel, so I tried to keep it on the thicker side.

The truss cover is the same as on the first build, a knockoff Ibanez style, but a bit smaller than the first build, because of the closer tuners. I curved the side that sits against the nut to match the curve of the nut. It looks really good.

The mahogany cavity covers are pretty good. (5) I had to make two sets, because the first set didn't come out tight enough to the lip of the cavities. The second set isn't perfect either (due to my basically freehanded recesses. sigh), but they're much much better.

- - - - - - -

So, I would really like some serious opinions on the finish for this beast. My plans for tomorrow are to get the whole thing sanded up to 220, maybe 320, before finishing. My options as of now are as follows:

-Grainfill, stain black, tru-oil (or brush-on clear)

-grainfill black, tru-oil (or brush-on clear)

-grainfill, tru-oil (or brush-on clear)

I don't feel like the black grainfill would be as consistent as the black stain would, so I'm leaning more towards the first method. I'm undecided on whether to dye black, though, because the natural colors of the wood are pretty attractive. I'm also leaning towards tru-oil, since I would need to buy a lot of brush-on clear (according to stewmac) to finish the guitar, and comparatively little tru-oil.

Thoughts?

[Xanthus]

Shameless bump: Updated the previous post with pic links for the tutorial. There are more pics that I didn't include, in the album.

Finishing: I bought a can of ebony flavored dye and tru-oil, both from Minwax. I started sanding some scraps, and by tomorrow, I'll have 4 options to pick from.

-With filler

-Without filler

-With filler and dye

-Without filler, with dye

All of the above will be sanded to 320 before staining/filling, and covered with a coat of oil. As you can see from the pics, there isn't much difference, if any, between the side with grain filler and that without. I'm really confused as to why. I might even make another swatch and leave the filler on longer. It is filler from last year, when I finished the first guitar. This might have something to do with it, as I don't know how long it keeps for.

[Xanthus]

Update: Finish sanded the whole thing to 320, and ate some delicious food and got a sunburn while doing it

Finishing schedule, please correct me if necessary:

-wipe with naptha, leave to dry

-grain filler (small sections, leave 15 minutes to soak in, then wipe off)

-sand to 400

-grain filler again

-lightly sand level at 400 again

-tru-oil, one thick "soak" coat

-0000 steel wool

-regular coats + steel wool

-wetsand with oil and micromesh every 4 or 5 coats

-final sanding

-buffing/polishing?

[Xanthus]

Shameless bump. New pics are up, outside shots with one coat of grainfill, prior to sanding at 400 and application of grainfill #2. The first coat of oil goes on tomorrow.

I'm so glad I didn't stain that sucka; that shade of amber is just stunning.

I'm heavily drawing from this thread for my finishing schedule:

-wipe-down with naptha to eliminate oils

-thick coat, 24hrs dry

-normal coat, 2hrs dry

-0000 wool

-2 more coats, 2hrs in between

-0000 wool, 400grit wetsand with oil

-2 coats, 2 hrs, 0000 wool, wetsand

-work up the coats and grits up to micromesh

[Bass-Man43]

That looks so sweet! I've been seeing alot of V builds around here and Ultimate guitar lately. Very well done can't to see it all finished