RGman Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 why did jackson put a veneer on a solid color guitar did it have a transparent before? i'm guessing they all have a veneer as they paint some solid, some transparent, who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Wouldn't be surprised at all if it's just a production decision. Veneers that end up looking like crap for whatever reason (and there could be many) get sent to the "solid colour" pile and the rest go to the transparent/translucent pile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeVictim Posted July 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Apparently the plant in India where these are made, also produce another guitar only sold in Asia. That guitar comes in trans finishes and I think Jackson offers two colors, trans red and trans blue. I am about to spend more in stuff to finish this guitar, than I actually paid for it. This pic shos guit sanded with no veneer. Looks like the same thing on the back of the body. My pooooor hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonsg26 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 (edited) Apparently the plant in India where these are made, also produce another guitar only sold in Asia. That guitar comes in trans finishes and I think Jackson offers two colors, trans red and trans blue. I am about to spend more in stuff to finish this guitar, than I actually paid for it. This pic shos guit sanded with no veneer. Looks like the same thing on the back of the body. My pooooor hands. Definetly looks good though. I ran in to the same thing on my first refinish i ended up spending like over 200 bucks in paint and a few parts on a 180 dollar guitar. i ran into the opisite of your problem and needed to sand back down to seal. It may stink to end up spending the money but at least your learning as you go. Right now im doing a job for my friend for free and i even gave him some paint i had lying around because its giving me experince and practice. The guitar is definetly looking like it is going to turn out good and the more prep work the better. Good luck Edited July 13, 2007 by gibsonsg26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 thats come up pretty nice now the veneers gone. its quite common practice for the budget guitars to have veneers front and back. Its because the bodies are normally made out of quite a few blocks of wood and adding a veneer hides that on trans finishes and also helps to stop the join lines appearing as the finish shrinks. Yours only looks like 3/4 pieces which is pretty good - because they can be more like 7/8 sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I agree, it looks much better with the veneer gone. You can definitely do that transparent stain, since like Wez said, the body doesn't have too many pieces to it. How does the back look, free of imperfections? They look like good pieces of wood, so I doubt it. I dunno what your paint scheme is, but you could do opaque black for the sides and back and stain the top. I think that'd look nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 That's starting to really turn out nice. I picked up a JS-1 on the cheap which is basically the same thing with a standard 2-point trem instead of locking, that I am going to refinish. I hope mine looks half as nice as yours is right now, once i sand it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 That's come up really nice. So sorry that you've had such a hard time of it, I expect a lot of the strange finishes that you were describing as you sanded were due to the veneer on top, I wouldn't have expected that. I'm glad that more experienced members have now joined the thread, you should be able to get a nice finish on that if you're patient & follow the advice that they give. As for spending more than you paid for the body on tools etc......welcome to the world of guitar building! It isn't usually cheaper than buying something off the shelf but it is much more rewarding. When planning for your first projects (& there will be more ) you need to decide on how to buy tools & equipment. For this project you could have bought a sander with various grits to remove the paint & finish the body, it might have been a little more expensive than sanding by hand but it would be less work & you'd have the tool for next time. Sometimes going down the cheapest route can be a false economy but I understand that it isn't always an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 if doing a hand stain on bare wood you need to be very aware of how the stain will soak in. For instance, it automatically soaks in more on end grain because thats the direction a tree would soak up water. This means that it will soak up more stain and go darker than the front and back. Then you also have the issue that rubbing on stain can be quite streaky anyway. Make sure you have a look through the finishing articles to see the best way to apply a stain by hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeVictim Posted July 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 (edited) I am having a real hard time getting all of the stain off the body. Basically everywhere the veneer wasn't, there is still a hint of the green oil stain. On the back, forget about it. I am going to have to start lifting more weights to sand this beast. Could I just use some kind of thinner? Also, I might have to do a solid color on back and side and only stain the top if I can't figure out a way to get that green out. Someone suggested I use the water based dye stain. Anyone have experience with this? Edited July 13, 2007 by JoeVictim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewu22 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 why did jackson put a veneer on a solid color guitar did it have a transparent before? Even the older Charvels had some sort of veneer on the front and back. I think it was for dent resistance. The veneer is a very ugly brown color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 why did jackson put a veneer on a solid color guitar did it have a transparent before? Even the older Charvels had some sort of veneer on the front and back. I think it was for dent resistance. The veneer is a very ugly brown color. I dont know about the old charvels,its possible they used a much harder wood fromt and back for some protection - but that wont have been the case on this guitar!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeVictim Posted July 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 As much as I can do on the back... Since the sides are going to be solid black and then fade into a burst, how well does those need to be sanded? It seems the wood absorbed the stain a lot better on the sides and it is going to be impossible to sand them down to wood. Am I going to have a problem. What prep would I need to do since there already is an oil stain there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeVictim Posted July 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Live and learn I guess. I already started the stain. This time I went with a waterbased dye, it is alot better to apply than the oil based stuff. I already started bursting it. Once it's all dry and done, I'll post some pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeVictim Posted July 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 First pics of the first burst. It looks like a newbie job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonsg26 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 if i were you id go a little more on the left side the right is too thick compaerd to the left its definetly a good color choice (i just did a burst almost exactly like it on my sg) good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeVictim Posted July 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Yeah, I'll hit it with the 600, then get the burst back out. I was having some alignment issues. I'll try to get a better pic tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 It doesn't look at all like a burst in those photos. I'm not saying I could do better (I've never tried) but I do suggest sanding back, then practicing on some scrap before trying again. What technique are you using for the burst? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeVictim Posted July 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 It doesn't look at all like a burst in those photos. I'm not saying I could do better (I've never tried) but I do suggest sanding back, then practicing on some scrap before trying again. What technique are you using for the burst? I am attempting to do what the guitar project tutorial explains to do. Any tips? I noticed after I took off the "stencil", it was thicker on the right side as Gib SG pointed out. It does look like it needs more of a fade. Thanks for checking it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonsg26 Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 dont use a stencil its easier by eye i tried with a stencil before and it came out just like that just do it by eye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeVictim Posted July 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 (edited) Here are some more pics. I'll just post the link for yas. Here we are ready for poly: http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t255/Jo.../Picture961.jpg And here is a closer up of the "fade": http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t255/Jo.../Picture962.jpg This is after the first coat of poly. (sorry, I couldn't resist) Edited July 22, 2007 by JoeVictim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Yikes....the paint looks a bit thick in places there and the burst hasn't much of a gradual transition....also, did you reseal the wood after you sanded it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeVictim Posted July 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Earlier in this thread, someone pointed out that if I didn't sand all the sealer off, the stain wouldn't stay. As far as paint being thick, what do you mean? The pics do not do the burst justice if you ask me. You def have to see this one. I think if I could use a diff camera, you could see what I am talking about. Whats funny is someone today didn't beleive that you could take a guitar apart to refinish it. This was the funniest thing I have heard all day. I have been through soooo much in just a short time with this guitar. I think the next time I decide to do this again, I will get some different tools. An electric sander starts coming to mind, as well as a compressor, and a paint sprayer. To all those who have offered advice, THANKYOU! I think I am starting to devolp an itch for my bass to be redone... We will see i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Sorry I didn't read through all of the thread. I read the brief and went straight to latest. Staining is carried out on unsealed wood, but it doesn't look like you're using stain - more like solid paint. You can still burst with solids, but the blend of the burst is harder to achieve and doesn't look as good (IMO). You may find that the wood used might not like taking stain, and if it does, it might not want to take it evenly because of the sealer coat it had/has. I would slap the person who said you can't refinish a guitar, and then perhaps consider buying the spraygun and compressor before re-doing this refinish and ending the whole thing by slapping him again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 If you did the stencil-based burst, my uninformed (as mentioned, I haven't tried it) but educated guess would be: - Your stencil isn't lifted high enough at the edges - You're spraying too close and too straight down The idea of lifting the stencil at the edges is that it allows a bit of paint in... but if you point straight down, no particles will float under and create that "fade". Or, if you're spraying too close, the particles won't be able to "cloud" and dissipate before contacting the wood. Not having tried it, all I can recommend again is practicing more. You don't even really need scrap wood in order to practice the 'burst' spray... newsprint will let you know if you're spraying from the right distance, at the right angle, and with the stencil lifted the right amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.