Starting It Or Not ?

[Demian]

Hello people,

I have 27 years old, I´m a guitar player and I like guitars very much..(especially Ibanez models )

I was very anxious when I saw this forum for the first time two years ago, because I liked the idea to make my own guitars (especially because in my country the prices are ridiculous and there are not too much variety of guitars to choose)

so, thanks to this forum, I bought two books from amazon: the hiscock´s one and the Martin Koch´s one.

The big issue is this: I have no experience with wood in anyway. I have never even use a drill before in my life.

So would you recomend to me to start "playing with cheap woods" to get experience or you all people think that one who wants to beging with this have to make a wood practice course or something like that to get experience or starting to know how to calibrate or repair guitars for example?

I mean is it worthy if I begin with this ? because you know, I would have to buy and invest in tools to begin with ?

Is it essential to have a big place to work with ?

Anyone of you people began with this with no experience at all or you had have wood experience before ?

Sorry If I ask something that was done 1000 times before, I´m very serious with it. I think if I go into it, it could tweak my life and job in a future..

Thanks,

Demian.

Edited July 18, 2007 by Demian

[Daniel Sorbera]

To answer a couple of your questions,

1. You can get "real" guitar woods very cheap. Something like alder for the body, maple for the neck etc. The majority of the cost is in the hardware.

2. It is not necessary to have a big shop or power tools (it just makes things faster and easier). Many people around here work in the garage or on the kitchen table with nothing but some inexpensive hand tools and sandpaper.

3. no you don't need previous woodworking experience, but of course it helps. I had very little experience (made a few birdhouses in school etc etc). It's more in your willingness to research and learn how to do it right (which seems you have down)

Of course you could start with something simple like a refinish or a modification of an existing guitar, but if you want to dive right in and build from scratch I don't see why you cant.

I say go for it, and don't forget to post pictures and ask questions here. There are a lot of knowledgeable people who would be more than willing to help you through it.

[richiehamilton]

Hi- you can do it with very few tools if you put your mind to it, and very little space. Building a guitar can be broken in to lots of little stages, and while it may be more tedious without power tools or a dedicated space, you can do it at the table at home and clear up later. Also you can get suitable wood almost anywhere, it mightn't be fancy flamed maple but almost any builder supply store will stock something like mahogany (sapele, or utile) and something like maple or alder or poplar. As for the other supplies there are always good ways to get around them. I love this guy's story- he's based in peru and didn't want to mail order expensive binding for his les paul, when it is just cheap plastic. So he cut up a cheap pvc pipe! His guitar looks great and he did it without space or money or supplies. http://galileo.spaceports.com/~fishbake/lpc/cvr/cover.htm

People have been makeing beautiful instruments for hunderds of years with only the simplest of tools. Just look at some of the 17th and 18th century guitars and violins.

Good luck. Do it!

Richie

Edited July 18, 2007 by richiehamilton

[Pete13606]

While very much a beginner here......I would take the path I followed.Build a kit guitar first.That way you have a little experience sanding,finishing,assembling,wiring and setting up an instrument.You would be surprised how much you can learn from the experience....unless of course you have already put together a few kits.

It took me a few over the years,but I finally got a great result so I am going to challenge myself to build closer to scratch.Good Luck!!!

[hooglebug]

i had no experience at all when i made my first. i didnt even play guitar. i ended up making an all bubinga guitar. i had no idea about what woods to use or anything. turned out fine. nothing spectacular but it was playable. if you really want to do it, do it. as has been said, wood can be bought quite cheaply and you can buy cheap partsand upgrade them later if its worth it. go for it!

[fryovanni]

Start by setting up necks fretting, and such(on built guitars). While you are learning about how to set a guitar up to play extreamly well you will be learning about things such as intonation, how close tolerances need to be, how truss rods work, fret leveling(and why getting a fretboard spot on and properly seating frets is so important), how to set up a nut properly, how to make bridge adjustments and the limits of those adjustments, how to get intonation set well and so forth. While you collect tools and are working on these necks you can read up on and get a solid understanding of wood properties(this is what you build with and you should understand the material as well as possible, and I do not mean this wood sounds like this and that wood sounds like that). After you understand what you want in the wood you will be able to buy proper wood to use(Ignor the BS, get your information from a source that is discussing wood specifically and scientifically not someone selling a product- this is free information available on the web). Use the information in the books that you have bought to make as many of the tools and jigs shown as you can(there are other forums and sites that also have great home made jig designs). This will get you used to working with tools and set you up with several reliable jigs that will improve accuracy. While you are getting used to tools. Learn how to sharpen tools, and properly tune them(these are all woodworking basics). Before you consider starting a build get a solid set of plans(full size) and study them so that you are familiar with them. Build your own neck doing all your own fret work, surfacing, fretboard leveling, nut(from a blank), and so forth using the experience you gained by doing set-ups and neck work on necks(hopefully you took the time to become very accurate and reasonably proficient). If you finish the body poorly, and it generally looks so-so. However it has a great neck that plays beautifully you will have a good instrument. Understanding electronics requires a good basic understanding of basic electrical theory, and a lot of practice soldering and insuring good connections(this is important). Finishing is another complete subject that requires a good bit of research and practice to do a solid job. First and formost IMO is the neck. Build and set up your neck extreamly well and you have a good instrument(even if the body has chunks ripped out of it, and the paint is flaking off. Great luthiers are expert technitions and outstanding repairmen(and there are a few on this forum, they tend to get ignored IMO instead of being paid proper attension and respect * they tend to not give the answers people want to hear). Watch for a guy with 20years worth of repair work, or a guy that is actually able to make a living(full time) building and repairing instruments(they have to be doing something right because it is a very hard thing to make a living doing).

Actually I am giving you advise from my experience. I am a weekend hobbiest and I am not a successful luthier, but maybe one of them will offer some valuable advise that will help you down the right path.

Peace,Rich

Peace,Rich

[soapbarstrat]

I know I'm rehashing some of Rich's post (which is right on the money), but I just want to stress the fact that with building from scratch, you still need a bunch of the tedious set-up tools and skills that bring an instrument to life, whether the instrument was built from scratch by you, or you bought a 20 year old instrument from a dusty pawn shop (I like those better). So get the set-up tools and skills, get good at that, and move further into it, if you still have the motivation.

If you decide not to go further, you will still have tools and skills to make guitars you buy tip-top. And building and repair DO take away from the time you have to PLAY guitars.

Seems like you would have worked with wood and used a drill by now, if you had that sort of thing "in your blood", but I don't know the circumstances.

[Woodenspoke]

This is the short answer

There are two types of people in this world. Those who pay others to do the work and others who get there hands dirty. If you are not the screw driver rip it apart and fix it kind of guy. Buy your dream guitar its takes a lot less effort and money.

I started in a basement with little space, with no knowledge, no internet, no computer(both not invented yet), and a few tools one book no longer in print. Turned out I had talent using my hands. My father on the other had couldn't cut a straight line; go figure. Its always a hit or miss, this forum is no help if you have no talent for it.

I have gone on to learn many other skills because I am good with my hands and have no fear in trying new things. I have about a half dozen guitars hanging on a wall all failures stripped for parts, but each one a learning experience. I will some day strip out any remaining parts and use the wood to warm my hands by the fire.

Good luck

Edited July 19, 2007 by Woodenspoke

[aidlook]

I started in a basement with little space, with no knowledge, no internet, no computer(both not invented yet),

Man! you must be old....The first computers where around in the 30's/40's.

[J_48_Johnson]

I'd say go for it, but do it in steps. First I would buy a neck for the first build since the neck work is intimidating to say the least, and has to be spot on for the guitar to play.

If you want to make a body, go for it. What I would suggest is that you buy enough wood to make two. The first one you will use as a dummy body for the second, real body. Make your templates and do a step on the first one, see how it works, then use the knowledge of what you did right and wrong on the seond body. Do this step by step, and you should end up with a body you can be proud of.

Godin SD said that the wood is cheap, and it is. It's the cheapest part of the guitar to buy. Maybe buy "cheap" wood, something that is readily availible to you to, use as your dummy while if you have "good" wood in mind to make one out of like mahogany, swamp ash, or whatever you like, buy both and use your first one as a sacraficial lamb so to speak. Best case; your sacraficial body turns out good enough to keep and you have a body for the neck you've always wanted to build, worst case scenario, pitch it in the fire and chalk it up to experience.

[Mattia]

Go for it, but slowly.

I started with only marginally more experience than you; screwing together basic pine side tables and the like with my dad. That was it. First piece of hardwood I ever worked was for a guitar. I moved on to assembling from parts, re-fretting and taking apart a cheap, nasty beater guitar to see if I could refret/play with fret dressing and the like. Tools I bought as I needed them, first and foremost a router, but I say: start with decent, but not crazy expensive wood. You're going to be pouring hours and hours of work into this project, and if it turns out great, you don't want it to be made of not properly dried, warping, knotty pine. Poor materials will frustrate you far more than the small cost savings are worth.

Wood's cheap. Worst case? Throw it out, start again, recycle the more expensive bits (ie, tuners, hardware, pickups) for the next project.

[Demian]

Thank you all guys.. I really appreciate your long dedication to answer me very much.

Ok, so I will start at least with a guitar from scratch for sure.. then I will see how I go on.

I know a real good luthier so I will ask him if he could make me a kit guitar to start with, following some advices from here of course.-

Thanks,

Demian.

Edited July 19, 2007 by Demian

[black_labb]

ask the luthier for sure, he would be able to get you started, and probably lend you some specialty tools. the first one i build (just the body, as i bought a premade neck) i used a jigsaw and a router borrowed from my girlfriends dad. turned out nicely. the neck is where the more difficult work is. you cant really screw up a body if you use templates and make sure they dont slip, keep in mind that all the cavities must be linked for wiring the thing up, and plan ahead how you will do it. for the neck, take your time and plan things out well ahead of time. consider things like the fact that you need a solid neck surface to do the fretting on, so installing the fretboard before carving the neck makes sense.

make sure you can piucture how you will do things in your head and see it through in your head before you even touch the wood!!

[fryovanni]

Thank you all guys.. I really appreciate your long dedication to anwer me very much.

Ok, so I will start at least with a guitar from scratch for sure.. then I will see how I go on.

I know a real good luthier so I will ask him if he could make me a kit guitar to start with, following some advices from here of course.-

Thanks,

Demian.

If you know a good luthier(that is a HUGE advantage for you), ask for a little guidence on building(don't ask someone to do the work or make a kit, you really don't need that). Watch their techniques and tooling. You will learn more by watching and getting guidence than by assembling a kit. I stress, BUILD YOUR NECK and learn proper fretwork and set up. I used to be kinda wishy washy about this, because some people didn't want to take on a neck because they felt it was too difficult(and in the interest of being PC I figured they could approach things however, with no ill effects). Well I have seen the fallout from that, and I believe you shouldn't be building a guitars in the first place if you don't know how to do proper neck work(by that I mean it is one of the very first things you should learn). May sound harsh(and believe me I am not a mean spirited person nor do I mean to sound like a jerk), but it is the absolute truth IMO. For the life of me I have never figured out why people are intimidated by necks anyway, unless they are afraid of what they do not understand(which means they should double there efforts and learn).

Peace,Rich

[mattharris75]

I'm going to agree with Rich and say you definitely need to build the neck. When I first had visions of building a guitar I thought i'd buy my first neck, but I sort of got 'talked into' building it on my own. And while i'm not quite finished with the guitar I am fairly deep into the process, and have to say that building the neck has been more rewarding than building the body. I was intimidated at first, and yes it is harder than building the body because of the level of precision required, but it's not so hard that it should not be attempted. It just requires patience and planning. The neck is just so functionally critical to the guitar, more so than the body, that the sense of accomplishment as you move forward with it is much greater. I say go for it!

[jmrentis]

What Rich said makes a lot of sense. Honestly, learning how to do a neck is what will teach you every important aspect of a guitar build from scale, good joints, tight measurements, and so on. It may look difficult, but with enough reading and knowledge its not hard to understand how to put it together. Also, +1 on what Mattia said, I could not even imagine actually finishing a first build being super happy with it and realizing it's some nasty looking with wood with all kinds of defects when you want to finish it. Definately, worth buying some of the cheaper hardwoods used for guitar building for your first. Plus, if you screw it up, its not trash as you will see later, there can be many things to use if for later, even the smallest little pieces can become knobs, or pickup rings/covers, or even laminates for rings or covers, + a whole heap of stuff. So, even if you muck up the body, its not really a total waste. Best of luck to you. I was very similar when I came here, I had some experience like building ramps and rails to skate on and other random stuff, but no real experience in woodworking. The main thing I think is patience, just take your time to fully understand everything you learn because once you understand it, you can apply it instead of mimic which is completely different. Practice helps with tools as well, practice with routing, practice with cutting, practice with inlays with the dremel and so on. Well, best of luck and in time I'm sure you'll be making nice guitars.

[Mickguard]

Since I'm now reaching the conclusion of my own beginner's phase, I figure I'll pipe in.

I could never be an apprentice and sit back and watch someone else do the work. Doesn't fit my personality. I need (and needed) to jump right in, over my head, make my own mistakes. I didn't have the patience to learn first and then do, and so most of my initial efforts were sloppy, fraught with mistakes and glitches. But I DO have the patience to go through this process over the course of several guitars. It didn't matter to me if my first, second and even third guitars were ultimately unsatisfactory to me. The process was satisfying in itself.

That's me. You have to decide who you are.

I would never have started this hobby if I had been forced to build a neck from the get-go. That was too big a mountain for me. I'd never worked with wood before in my life. So I'm glad I chose to use existing necks.

On the other hand, I never felt like I was playing MY guitar with any of those necks. Which is a big part of why all my earlier projects were unsatisfactory to me. After much resistance, I finally agree that you are not truly building your own guitar UNLESS you build the neck too.

Now that I've built two necks, I can say that without question it is the MOST FUN part of the build. It's definitely not as difficult as it looks (I use preslotted fretboards, I'm working my way up to doing that myself). And ultimately, it's an amazing thing to be playing a guitar that has been truly shaped to my hand. I can say that my latest guitar is the best guitar I own --better than my MIJ Fender, and even better than my '65 Gibson). It's not perfect, but this guitar has actually made me a better player. And the next neck, which is curing right now, corrects a couple of issues with the first, and should be even better.

I agree though that no matter what direction you choose--it's important to feel that the project is a 'serious' one with the goal of building a great guitar. I could not have found the energy and patience to build a throwaway guitar. It takes me MONTHS to complete a project--the GOTM entry took me a year, with breaks from start to finish. There's no way I can give that kind of commitment to a build that's not important to me. So yeah, make sure you have the wood and hardware and specs that you really want for the end product. Wood is cheap, considering the time and effort you will put into this.

As for the 'learn how to do setups and fretwork school'...well, there again, I did not have the patience to start that way. On the other hand, I found myself naturally learning all of that along the way. I just surprised myself the other day when I diagnosed and fixed a fret issue with the new guitar while setting it up. And surprised myself again when my setup turned a nice guitar into a truly great one.

And I am right now in the process of rewiring and setting up my brother-in-law's guitar--with no hesitation. I just know what to do now. But again, what worked for me was trial and error along the way, concurrent with the building learning process. I couldn't have waited to learn the first before tackling the second, that wouldn't have been interesting to me.

Funny thing, though. Succeeding with this project (and you really have to know how far I've come just to reach this point) has given me even more confidence to take on all kinds of things in the rest of my life. More than ever, I can say that I can do pretty much anything I set my mind to.

So now that I'm finished with the beginner's phase. I'm ready to move into the moderately advanced beginner's phase. Pretty cool feeling.

[Demian]

Well yes, to be sincere I was afraid at the beginning with the making of a neck because as everyone says or think its maybe the most difficult part. I was in the same rail with this so I was undecided to do it.

Something that I was seeing in several custom guitars or replicas in my country is that they look great but when you play it its no so great, and thats where I though it was a difficult thing to make it sound great. I mean for example I have played several originals Ibanez RG or Jems and of course the confort, sensation when you play it, the sound, all is great, but when I played some replicas of jem or RG models, made by luthiers, they looked great ,some times even better than the originals, but when you play it its not the same. So that its where I think maybe you need to know, beside from making it look great, how to make it sound great too. Thats the point where you need to have lot of experience. Thats why I think the making of the neck is the main key on this purpose. However, I have played replica custom guitars that sound better than the originals too and that is amazing, really amazing when you have done a guitar that sound better than anyone bought in a store.

Damian.

[Mattia]

For a great-playing guitar, well, it's down to preference, and carving a comfortable neck. Thing is, without good fretting and setup skills, a guitar won't play terribly well, and a good luthier should easily be able to do a far better setup than a factory Ibanez fret and setup job.

Most of the sound of a guitar is in the pickups; use knock-offs, different sound. Then you've got solid construction (tight tolerances, precise work) and good wood selection to deal with. Personally, I don't like how Jems and RG's play (can't stand tiny-weeny-skinny necks), but that's purely a matter of taste. Seriously, it's not difficult - with good components - to make a guitar that sounds better than a factory instrument, and making one play better is down to setup skills; a book like Dan Erlewine's 'Guitar Player Repair Guide' or 'How to make your electric guitar play great' (not worth it if you already have the repair guide) will give you the basic necessary skills, and practice on as many guitars as you can get your hands on will perfect them.

[fryovanni]

Mick, It is interesting reading your post. I think you are one of the fellas(certainly not the only one though) that originally made me think I was wrong in thinking someone should do neck work first(kind of a do your own thing in your own time sort of thing, as long as your learning and working on something). Looking back, I wish I had stuck to my guns and tried to make a stronger case. If a guy has what it takes to learn how to build a body well, and is ever going to be a builder. He has what it takes to make a neck(determination, a high level of integrity with his work, motivation to learn and understand).

If a person is going to build a guitar from scratch. They should without a doubt be capable of setting up a guitar very well and be extreamly familiar with how the instrument functions. How on earth could a person hope to build a good guitar without at least that basic skill set. I am not saying everyone needs to be a master technition or repairman(that takes years and years of experience). Personally, I think leading someone down a different path is not doing them any favors. I suspect guys that learned how to do good neck work before they started scratch builds don't think much of this(because it never posed any issue), but people who jumped in without have struggled and have been haunted by this. My hope in harping on this topic a bit, is that the guys who have been down the road will have this in the front of their mind when advising someone who wants to get into building, and those who are just getting things rolling will take a little time and dig into a set up or two(odds are they have a couple built guitars they could spend a few days working on).

Peace,Rich