alysum Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 Hello, I'm having troubles using my new router and creating neck pockets for my bolt-on telecaster style neck; seems like a difficult thing for something very important where errors are not acceptable... I know it takes time to get used to the router; right now I struggle to see anything at all using the router ! I've been trying to create some templates but I often go a bit too far in with the router and after I find it very hard to get straight lines sanding it. Then when I used the template on a block of wood to practice, the router cut through both... What's the safest approach to making neck pockets ? Thanks in advance for any tips...I wonder how all those people can easily rout pockets and cavities... Quote
cr_XD Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 Then when I used the template on a block of wood to practice, the router cut through both... looks like you didn't use a router bit with bearing. the bearing keeps contact with the template so you don't cut through it Quote
johnsilver Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 I've been trying to create some templates but I often go a bit too far in with the router and after I find it very hard to get straight lines sanding it. Then when I used the template on a block of wood to practice, the router cut through both... Apologies if this is too basic a question. What type bit are you using with the templates - a bit with a bearing to ride along the template edge? Quote
Rick500 Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 Here's a pic of a pattern bit (straight bit with a bearing): The bearing will follow the template, and the cutting edges are the same diameter as the bearing, so they will only cut to the level of the bearing. When cutting neck pockets, one tip is to put a couple of layers of masking tape along the template edge where the bearing will ride, and route the pocket out. Then check the fit, remove one layer of tape and make another pass, check the fit, remove the other layer, make the final pass. (Of course, if you find the neck fits before making the final passes [and it should not, since you've already checked that your template is spot on, before routing], stop.) The pic shows the entire depth of the cavity being cut at once. A good rule of thumb though, is to make passes no deeper than the shank of your router bit (less in some cases). Quote
alysum Posted July 24, 2007 Author Report Posted July 24, 2007 (edited) thats for the tips, no I don't have any bits like the one on the pic above so I guess I'll have to purchase one as none of the 6 bits that came with the B & D kit have a bearing on top. 2 have them on the bottom which obviously are no good. good idea putting some masking wood too ! but then making a template without a template is even harder ! Is it best to do the edges by hand ? Harder to get it straight tho Edited July 24, 2007 by alysum Quote
mattharris75 Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 You won't be 'making a template without a template'. You use your neck as your pattern to make the template off of. Here's what you do: Get a couple of pieces of 3/4" MDF. They only need to be fairly small strips. Use a table saw or mitre saw to ensure that they have at least one straight edge. place two of them lengthwise along the edges of your neck and then cut a smaller one to place against the heel in between the other two pieces. You should have 3 straight edges that are all aligned perfectly against the neck. Then just take some hot glue and a piece of 1/4" MDF that has been cut so that there is a hole to fit around the neck. The hole cut in this does not have to be accurate and can be quite a bit larger, but it will be the surface that the bottom plate of the router rides on, so don't make it so big that the router can easily be dipped over the edge to the 3/4" piece of MDF below. Then you just hot glue that piece on top of the other 3 and measure out and draw your center line on the template. And there you go, a perfect template designed around your neck to work with a pattern following bit (one with the bearing on top). There are other derivations of this same idea, but I have found this to be a simple, no-fuss way of doing things. Quote
Rick500 Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 [Edit: Matt and I were typing at the same time ] There's probably a template-making tutorial here somewhere. But for the neck pocket template (and I messed this up the first time I did it): Find and mark the centerline of your neck. Mark a centerline on your template material. Put the neck on the template material, perfectly matching up the centerlines. Get two completely straight boards of equal height, and put one along either side of the neck so that their sides describe the lines that are the two sides of the neck (and that will be the sides of the neck pocket template). Clamp them to the neck and screw the boards down (screw heads below the surface of the board) to the template material so that the boards' ends protrude beyond the end of the neck. Then position another flat, straight (and equal height to the other two) board against the end of the neck. It should be roughly the right length but doesn't have to fit tight to the other two boards, as the router bit will be too large for a small gap to make a difference. Similarly put a couple screws in this board. Now you should have three boards of equal height surrounding the neck. They should all be securely fastened to the template, and the screws should be sunk below their surfaces. Remove the clamps holding the longer boards to the neck. Remove the neck. It should be a really tight fit. If it's not, try again. Put a couple layers of masking tape along the surfaces where the bit bearing will ride. Now you can route your neck pocket template. Make sure you have enough surface on the three boards for the router's base to ride on without rocking, and route out the template. You only need to route enough to cover the pocket; 4 inches at the heel end should do it. Check the fit of the neck heel into the routed template. It should be too tight at this point due to the extra thickness the tape provided. Remove a layer of tape (or both layers if you're confident the guides are perfect), make another pass with the router, and test fit again. Sand a little if necessary. Remove the three boards, and you have your neck pocket template. Quote
Woodenspoke Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 I hate to be the only downer with all elaborate and excellent responses posted here. BUT First I though this site was dedicated to building guitars not learning how to use standard woodworking tools. If you buy a tool I would expect you to learn how to use it before you post questions to the group. Template routing is an often discussed topic here and assumes you have a working knowledge of the tool first. Maybe we are missing a beginners guide to using tools section on this forum. I think what puzzles me is someone can buy a tool and just expect to know how to use it without any reading; maybe its osmosis at work, LOL. I guess the destroy and learn method is a method none the less. Buy a book about how to use a router first then ask questions on pattern routing. I expect all you forum members to be a little more critical of people who cant learn to use their own tools before posting responses here. Give the guy hell for not doing his homework first. Quote
soapbarstrat Posted July 25, 2007 Report Posted July 25, 2007 Give the guy hell for not doing his homework first. Would make a great sig line. Would also piss-off several thousand forum members. Them young'uns don't like getting picked on, especially in the middle of summer when they're the most invincible. Sounds like me when I was 12 and bought my first Dremel. No internet forums around. Just me and enough 2x4 scraps to get the feel of the thing. Quote
tim_ado Posted July 25, 2007 Report Posted July 25, 2007 i dont have a bearing bit i just make a bigger templete for the router base to run along Quote
alysum Posted July 26, 2007 Author Report Posted July 26, 2007 I went to 2 hardware stores, none have the bearings on top looks like they are hard to find...is there a way to make your own bearing ? Quote
mattharris75 Posted July 26, 2007 Report Posted July 26, 2007 Just order it online from some place like this: Router Bits Quote
alysum Posted July 26, 2007 Author Report Posted July 26, 2007 bigger template that would be a bit risky and more difficult to get nice and straight lines don't you think ? Quote
tim_ado Posted July 26, 2007 Report Posted July 26, 2007 (edited) nope its really jsut the same ive done it for all my routes because i done have a bearing bit say the base has a 150mm radius and a 10mm bit you just add the 150 to the normal temlpate then minus the 10 for the bit if u do the math right and test it out it works fine Edited July 26, 2007 by tim_ado Quote
Drak Posted July 26, 2007 Report Posted July 26, 2007 I expect all you forum members to be a little more critical of people who cant learn to use their own tools before posting responses here. Give the guy hell for not doing his homework first. That would be going specifically and directly against the prime directive of the owner of this website and his personal philosophy of what this website was designed for in the first place. :D Quote
Woodenspoke Posted July 26, 2007 Report Posted July 26, 2007 (edited) I expect all you forum members to be a little more critical of people who cant learn to use their own tools before posting responses here. Give the guy hell for not doing his homework first. That would be going specifically and directly against the prime directive of the owner of this website and his personal philosophy of what this website was designed for in the first place. :D There are woodworking sites dedicated to using tools. I seem to be under the impression this was a guitar building forum "Project Guitar". Maybe being a long time woodworker I expect others to spend some time learning to use their tools before the plug hits the socket. I have seen and posted on issues related to patterns and pattern bits. Anyone could have done a search and come up with dozens of posts to read on the subject. Yes its not my forum nor yours and what I do like is I can express my opinions freely here even though not everyone agrees with them. My "prime directive" (what are you captain of the enterprise) is I joined to discuss and learn about building guitars plain and simple. If the initial question was what bit should I use, my response would have been different. But it was painfully obvious to me he did not do his homework first. I can only hope he does not think finding the right bit should be the end of his search for knowledge. A router is a dangerous tool if used incorrectly. I would not like to be responsible for only providing just enough information for this member to injure himself. Edited July 26, 2007 by Woodenspoke Quote
johnsilver Posted July 26, 2007 Report Posted July 26, 2007 I'm in a weird mood so I'll jump in again. Asylum, hopefully you can find a top bearing bit. They are very useful in guitar work. There are lots of members on this forum from Australia so maybe they can advise a local source. If you can not after an exhaustive search of brick and mortar and on-line sites, pm me. Soap - you had a Dremel at age 12? Sweet! Drak - good to see you in play. Woodenspoke - I personally appreciate your concern for the safety of a fellow member. My advice, of which you are of course free to ignore, is that you can find what you are looking for on this forum and others can as well. For you, that may involve ignoring many thousands of posts that will no doubt frustrate you. Its all about them damn geetars..... Quote
black_labb Posted July 27, 2007 Report Posted July 27, 2007 http://www.northwoodtools.com.au/defaultmain.asp?c=261832 you can order a template following bit here, otherwise you can buy a bearingof the correct size to go on the shank of one of your bits and loc tite it in position. i did that for 2 small bits and have bought a big bit from northwood to use for body shapes, the smaller ones are to use for cavities (such a neck slot) before that i used a large template as someone mentioned and routed things beforei cut the shape out. Quote
alysum Posted July 27, 2007 Author Report Posted July 27, 2007 thanks but I'm not in Australia but in a remote area in France ! it's strange even the "Bunnins warehouse of France" don't seem to have those bearing bits on their website. I have found an online store but they cost 40 euros, pretty pricey ! Quote
lowrider Posted July 27, 2007 Report Posted July 27, 2007 http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_...outer_Bits.html Quote
Drak Posted July 27, 2007 Report Posted July 27, 2007 My "prime directive" (what are you captain of the enterprise) is I joined to discuss and learn about building guitars plain and simple. If the initial question was what bit should I use, my response would have been different. But it was painfully obvious to me he did not do his homework first. The founder of this website believes if you have information someone else does not, then put it up or simply don't bother to reply. Don't chastise someone for not knowing what they are doing, to learn from those who know how is what this site is all about. If you have the knowledge to explain it to them, then explain it, instead of looking down your snotty nose at them. This site is specifically focused on HELPING BEGINNERS. So, if you can help and you have the experience, then let's hear what you have to say. If you're too lazy or simply don't care enough to help some new guy out or don't feel like typing it all out, then move on and read another thread and leave this guy alone, because someone here WILL help him, it just won't be you. Quote
marksound Posted July 27, 2007 Report Posted July 27, 2007 thanks but I'm not in Australia but in a remote area in France ! it's strange even the "Bunnins warehouse of France" don't seem to have those bearing bits on their website. I have found an online store but they cost 40 euros, pretty pricey ! Send a PM to member Mickguard. He's somewhere in France too and seems to have found or improvised everything he needed to produce a GOTM entry. Quote
Woodenspoke Posted July 28, 2007 Report Posted July 28, 2007 My "prime directive" (what are you captain of the enterprise) is I joined to discuss and learn about building guitars plain and simple. If the initial question was what bit should I use, my response would have been different. But it was painfully obvious to me he did not do his homework first. The founder of this website believes if you have information someone else does not, then put it up or simply don't bother to reply. Don't chastise someone for not knowing what they are doing, to learn from those who know how is what this site is all about. If you have the knowledge to explain it to them, then explain it, instead of looking down your snotty nose at them. This site is specifically focused on HELPING BEGINNERS. So, if you can help and you have the experience, then let's hear what you have to say. If you're too lazy or simply don't care enough to help some new guy out or don't feel like typing it all out, then move on and read another thread and leave this guy alone, because someone here WILL help him, it just won't be you. I stand by my opinions as I believe my point is valid. If you want to hear what I have to say you can do your own homework and read my posts. I have been attacked by VIP's before but generally without the name calling. No I have never written a book on how to use a router and I do not plan on writing one on the forum as you suggest. If the founder ever does get a sponsor I wonder who will be the first to go the members; or the VIP's. I expect to be on the short list LOL. Alysum: Viva le Tour. Quote
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