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I was planning on putting a floyd rose in my first guitar for a long time but I wanted to get some other opinions. It's going to be a neck- through explorer. Someone told me that Floyds "suck the tone out of a guitar."

Now I'm leaning more towards a string- through design.

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For the locking mechanism to be truly effective, it needs to be at the nut. 2 reasons for this... 1 actual reason and 1 piece of BS that I'm about to make up on the spot. :D

1 - the nut is generally a source of friction. Even low-friction nuts are not "NO" friction. Where there is friction and downward pressure, there will be an opportunity for your string to go out of tune. There are other reasons for tuning to go off, but putting a locking nut in (instead of using locking tuners) takes one of those reasons out of the equation.

2 - (the made up on the spot one... take with a grain of salt as I might just be talking smack) By locking off at the nut, your divebombs will be more effective... less length of guitar string to redistribute the tension across means an arithmatic (or even exponential... I've never done the math) lowering of pitch per millimeter of divebombing action. :D

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divebombs would be nice. Can I avoid that ugly locking nut with locking tuners?

1- Floyds don't suck the tone out of guitars

2- No need for locking tuners with a Floyd.

3- You DO need a locking nut

A lot of people have a beef with Floyds. I think its because they've had bad experiences with cheap ones or maybe they have trouble setting them up.

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I was planning on putting a floyd rose in my first guitar for a long time but I wanted to get some other opinions. It's going to be a neck- through explorer. Someone told me that Floyds "suck the tone out of a guitar."

Now I'm leaning more towards a string- through design.

:D When someone tells you anything will- suck, kill, weaken, put in an arm bar, reduce, add, wake up, put to sleep,soak, saturate, or even kick tone in the nuts. Ask them what they are talking about because what they are saying is absolutely meaningless. When people can't actually tell you why, what, or how something is going to change the timbre of an instrument, they make statements like that. Next thing you know people, people try to figure out what it means(since it means nothing they are left to fill in some meaning) and myths develop. Avoid taking hype or myth seriously, listening to opinions is fine (but they are just that) and can be used to help develop your opinion, trust what is tangable and accept the fact we can't account for everything(avoid assuming you have absolutely figured everything out, because that is when you will be proven wrong), most truths in building are relative, and absolutes will rarely apply.

Rich takes a deep breath...... and lets it go :DB)

I think you would agree that many great sounding guitars have been built using Floyds, as well as TOMS. They both serve their purpose. If you want to have the features of one over the other, choose the one that suits your needs(that is the best design, and your ultimate goal. Right?).

Peace,Rich

Greg, Interesting thoughts. Do all different guages of strings increase in pitch equally when stretched a given distance?

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divebombs would be nice. Can I avoid that ugly locking nut with locking tuners?

1- Floyds don't suck the tone out of guitars

2- No need for locking tuners with a Floyd.

3- You DO need a locking nut

A lot of people have a beef with Floyds. I think its because they've had bad experiences with cheap ones or maybe they have trouble setting them up.

Only thing I'll disagree with is that you don't NEED a locking nut. The locking nut is a must to get the tuning stability that Floyds are known for. If you are doing heavy dive bombs or pullups you need that stability, a vintage trem just won't have it. But if all you are doing is some trem wiggles and more of a blues type dive, you can get away with a regular nut, but might have some problems staying in tune.

But if all you are doing is some wiggles here and there and are not trying to be a whammy god from the 80's, you can get away with a non-locking trem and forget the locking nut and setup issues of a Floyd, and save quite a chunk of money.

You have to know what type of work you plan on doing with the trem. Full dive bomb straight into a pullup buy holding the guitar buy the whammy bar, and you NEED a Floyd. An occasional pitch changing dive and you can go with a non-locking trem.

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Greg, Interesting thoughts. Do all different guages of strings increase in pitch equally when stretched a given distance?

I couldn't say for sure, Rich. My suspicion is that when the string lenths become uneven (ie. no locking nut and a 6-in-line headstock) the redistribution of tension will differ. It is only a guess, but I would think that the locking nut (ie. strings are all effectively the same length, bridge intonation aside) would make relative changes of pitch a bit more consistent when using the trem.

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A floyd will likely *change* the tone of a guitar, and it could certainly be that you won't like the change, but you could just as easily like the change.

I've been messing around with my old '90 'never made it to final assembly' Kramer, and it's pretty hard not to sound like a Steve Vai wannabe half the time I wiggle that stick. But maybe what I hate more than that, is the pokey "spike" on the locking nut, between high E slot and edge of nut. Although I don't have the clamps on the nut, so maybe that makes me feel that spike more.

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I've been messing around with my old '90 'never made it to final assembly' Kramer, and it's pretty hard not to sound like a Steve Vai wannabe half the time I wiggle that stick. But maybe what I hate more than that, is the pokey "spike" on the locking nut, between high E slot and edge of nut. Although I don't have the clamps on the nut, so maybe that makes me feel that spike more.

Well, the obvious problem is you've got your hand up by the nut on the guitar - you wouldn't feel that "spike" on the locking nut if you were playing way up high on the neck like that guitar was obviously designed to be.

:D

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A floyd will likely *change* the tone of a guitar, and it could certainly be that you won't like the change, but you could just as easily like the change.

I've been messing around with my old '90 'never made it to final assembly' Kramer, and it's pretty hard not to sound like a Steve Vai wannabe half the time I wiggle that stick. But maybe what I hate more than that, is the pokey "spike" on the locking nut, between high E slot and edge of nut. Although I don't have the clamps on the nut, so maybe that makes me feel that spike more.

Funny you should mention that, I still have a scar on my index finger from that damn nut that was on my crappy plywood '80s Kramer.

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A floyd will likely *change* the tone of a guitar, and it could certainly be that you won't like the change, but you could just as easily like the change.

I've been messing around with my old '90 'never made it to final assembly' Kramer, and it's pretty hard not to sound like a Steve Vai wannabe half the time I wiggle that stick. But maybe what I hate more than that, is the pokey "spike" on the locking nut, between high E slot and edge of nut. Although I don't have the clamps on the nut, so maybe that makes me feel that spike more.

Funny you should mention that, I still have a scar on my index finger from that damn nut that was on my crappy plywood '80s Kramer.

I've been playing Floyd equipped guitars for more than 20 years and I've never seen or heard of the locking nut being spikey or dangerous.

But then again, I've only ever used real Floyds and/or Ibanez Edge trems. Maybe the cheap knock offs are different

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A floyd will likely *change* the tone of a guitar, and it could certainly be that you won't like the change, but you could just as easily like the change.

I've been messing around with my old '90 'never made it to final assembly' Kramer, and it's pretty hard not to sound like a Steve Vai wannabe half the time I wiggle that stick. But maybe what I hate more than that, is the pokey "spike" on the locking nut, between high E slot and edge of nut. Although I don't have the clamps on the nut, so maybe that makes me feel that spike more.

Funny you should mention that, I still have a scar on my index finger from that damn nut that was on my crappy plywood '80s Kramer.

I've been playing Floyd equipped guitars for more than 20 years and I've never seen or heard of the locking nut being spikey or dangerous.

But then again, I've only ever used real Floyds and/or Ibanez Edge trems. Maybe the cheap knock offs are different

No, I was just a showy teenager at the time (late '80s - early '90s) and was jumping around on the stage. My left hand slipped down the neck at about 150 miles an hour, catching my index finger. OUCH! The audience liked the blood though. Sadists. :D

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It's an original 'made in Germany' floyd, the good one. Guess I'm just used to a regular nut with all the edges nicely rounded and less than 1/8" higher than the fret-board.

And after having the guitar for 13-14 years (hardly ever played it), I only now realize the fret-board radius is 14" and the damn nut is a 10" radius (I had bought the floyd a while before getting the ESP built Kramer body and neck).

Never owned a junk floyd copy and don't plan to, unless I'd see one at a garage sale for $1.00

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A floyd will likely *change* the tone of a guitar, and it could certainly be that you won't like the change, but you could just as easily like the change.

I've been messing around with my old '90 'never made it to final assembly' Kramer, and it's pretty hard not to sound like a Steve Vai wannabe half the time I wiggle that stick. But maybe what I hate more than that, is the pokey "spike" on the locking nut, between high E slot and edge of nut. Although I don't have the clamps on the nut, so maybe that makes me feel that spike more.

Funny you should mention that, I still have a scar on my index finger from that damn nut that was on my crappy plywood '80s Kramer.

I've been playing Floyd equipped guitars for more than 20 years and I've never seen or heard of the locking nut being spikey or dangerous.

But then again, I've only ever used real Floyds and/or Ibanez Edge trems. Maybe the cheap knock offs are different

No, I was just a showy teenager at the time (late '80s - early '90s) and was jumping around on the stage. My left hand slipped down the neck at about 150 miles an hour, catching my index finger. OUCH! The audience liked the blood though. Sadists. :D

you got my hopes up that this thread would quikly turn into a discussion of bleeding on stage; like the time i punched a disco ball at the climax of the song;

something at the time told me it would be awsome and the ball would go crazy and and flop around making cool effects

(we were in a hardcore band that sometimes played at any venues that would take us; i beleive this was a chinese restaurant during the day!)

it didnt flinch;

"dissapointed"

but it made for a great pic after i tried to suck away the perfusely bloody mess;

this thread is officially hijacked;consider it a bump; sorry.

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you got my hopes up that this thread would quikly turn into a discussion of bleeding on stage; like the time i punched a disco ball at the climax of the song;

something at the time told me it would be awsome and the ball would go crazy and and flop around making cool effects

(we were in a hardcore band that sometimes played at any venues that would take us; i beleive this was a chinese restaurant during the day!)

it didnt flinch;

"dissapointed"

but it made for a great pic after i tried to suck away the perfusely bloody mess;

this thread is officially hijacked;consider it a bump; sorry.

LOL! A couple of weeks ago, one of the drummer's sticks broke and one of the piece came flying out of the drum kit, hitting me in the arm, resulting in blood. Good times.

... Which reminds me, I actually put some blood between the top and body of one of my last guitar projects. I believe that it will give the guitar some serious mojo, make the future owner play and sound like a god and all women will be at his feet. :D

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Piling on to highjacked thread...

So the time our roady made flash pots out of Pepsi bottles. When they went off they exploded and glass went everywhere... good thing it was practice, lots of blood.

The best live one was after slamming my finger in the truck door at work on Thursday I had to drill a hole in the nail and CA the gap to stop the bleeding and play that Saturday... Of course the CA was scrapped off during the show and I bleed everywhere...

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you got my hopes up that this thread would quikly turn into a discussion of bleeding on stage; like the time i punched a disco ball at the climax of the song;

something at the time told me it would be awsome and the ball would go crazy and and flop around making cool effects

(we were in a hardcore band that sometimes played at any venues that would take us; i beleive this was a chinese restaurant during the day!)

it didnt flinch;

"dissapointed"

but it made for a great pic after i tried to suck away the perfusely bloody mess;

this thread is officially hijacked;consider it a bump; sorry.

LOL! A couple of weeks ago, one of the drummer's sticks broke and one of the piece came flying out of the drum kit, hitting me in the arm, resulting in blood. Good times.

... Which reminds me, I actually put some blood between the top and body of one of my last guitar projects. I believe that it will give the guitar some serious mojo, make the future owner play and sound like a god and all women will be at his feet. :D

haha, who's blood? That might be the secret ingredient for my guitar.

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Another option would be a wilkinson trem, graphite nut, and locking tuners. I have that set up on a guitar and as it isn't the best with divebombs but when set up correctly it can go pretty crazy without going out of tune and it gets the great look of a vintage tremolo. Personally this is what I would do but if you do alot of dive bombing and crazy up and down vibrato then the floyd is the way to go.

Edited by Dudz
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I would just like to stick my tuppence worth in regarding cheapo Floyds!

I recently bought a Floyd copy (deliberately!) for a project I was experimenting with.

I'm often hearing people asking how hard it is etc to replace a Strat-style fulcrum trem with a floaty Floyd, so I bought myself a cheapo Washburn WR150 (RG-a-like!) and a Chinese Floyd on the 'Bay.

The Floyd copy only took 4 days to arrive and that was from Hong Kong to UK, pretty good I thought!

Luckily for me, I work for a jewellery manufacturer and have access to CNC milling, so I gave the routing dimensions to my mate who operates the CNC and we made all the necessary cutouts.

Then I bunged in the "Floyd", made a shelf for the locking nut, and set it all up. Whole thing took less than a day.

As I said, I make castings for a living so I know what to look for, but this "Floyd" was reasonably good, quite well dressed and finished, but obviously made of lower grade metal! Slightly "overpainted" and rounded, and could use a better block. Still, for literally a few quid, not at all bad! And the saddles were quite nice.

So, results wise: once I got it set up and intonated (which it did 100%, and I used a digital tuner to calibrate!) I thought "Let's go straight to the disappointing bit and Dime the hell out of it to see how bad it is!" A few minutes and dozens of divebombs/pullups/wiggles/bends later I let it return to pitch - I couldn't believe it! It was still EXACTLY in tune!!! And weeks later, it still holds in tune no matter what abuse I throw at it!

OK OK, maybe I was lucky and got a "decent" one, but seriously for what I paid, it's just fine!

I realise that the pivot points will wear out, probably the posts too, and the bar will maybe snap one day, but ***, it was an experiment after all. The entire project cost less than a real Floyd, including buying a mule to work on!

In summary, I don't know if I would advise anyone to buy a cheapo "Floyd", but using one like I did, going into it with sensible expectations etc, and if you know what you're doing, well why not?? In this manner, I think there's a place for them!

I think the final setting-up has to be quite good or you won't be able to judge anything!

I mean, I've met folk with real Floyds who just couldn't set them up properly and who thought their guitar was knackered etc.

Just an opinion!

DJ

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