Cure Time - Acrylic Vs Nitro

[davros]

3 1/2 years ago now, I built a guitar (with loads of help from you folks on the forum!). I sprayed it with car acrylic spray from a rattlecan. It dried quickly, but took over a year to cure - during that time, i had used a normal guitar stand, and that ate through the uncured finish leaving it in a total mess. So, i've stripped it back down to the wood with nitromors (fantastic stuff!), put on / sanded back the sanding sealer and am ready to start again.

I have no plans (at the moment - no time) to build any other guitars, so want to be able to refinish using rattlecans rather than getting any other equipment. Over here in the UK, we can't get ReRanch nitro (due to shipping restrictions), but a guy at Manchester Guitar Tech does sell it here in the UK in Daphne Blue (which i'm after).

My question is - will nitro cure more quickly than acrylic? I'll wait a year or more for it to harden if i have to, but i'd really rather not (i know that nitro doesn't get on with rubber either, so would be steering clear of the old stand!).

Also (apart from opinions on tone), what other pro's and cons are there for acrylic/nitro?

Oh yeah, my other option is to try and find a car bodyshop that would spray it for me, but that would (i assume) be acrylic again.

I've had this guitar in bits for 6 months, and really want to get playing it again!!

This is a photo in its former glory

Thanks in advance!

[CrazyManAndy]

If I recall correctly, acrylic is supposed to cure quicker than nitro. If you want a quick finish, nitro isn't the best choice.

CMA

Edited June 9, 2008 by CrazyManAndy

[hexa-db]

I left a recently sprayed guitar (acrylic based clear) in my conservatory all last week thinking it would get hot enough to cure pretty quickly but it didn't. Attempting to wet sand it on the weekend was a bit of a disaster :/

I hope it doesn't take a year to cure!

[davros]

You really need to leave it a month before wet sanding. It'll take at least that long to be hard enough - I tried a week after spraying and that was way too early. Don't put it down on any surface either, as it'll pick up the pattern of the weave.

[DGW]

I did the rattlecan thing for many years ...

It sucked ... don't waste your time.

Nowdays, I only shoot acrylic urethane (car paint).

Cures in hours (not months or years) and the finish looks as professional and is as durable as you're gonna get.

[ihocky2]

Acrylic is SUPPOSED to cure faster. But it usually doesn't. It cures to a useable hardness for other projects, but the kind of cure and shine we are looking to get for a guitar takes longer than they say. Nitro is usually 1 month cure and you are ready to wetsand. Acrylic doesn't cure as hard as nitro, people have a lot of problems shipping guitars finished in acrylic laquer because it usually imprints with the packing material. Nitro is a better bet.

[DGW]

Acrylic is SUPPOSED to cure faster. But it usually doesn't. It cures to a useable hardness for other projects, but the kind of cure and shine we are looking to get for a guitar takes longer than they say. Nitro is usually 1 month cure and you are ready to wetsand. Acrylic doesn't cure as hard as nitro, people have a lot of problems shipping guitars finished in acrylic laquer because it usually imprints with the packing material. Nitro is a better bet.

You're obviously refering to rattlecan paintjobs ...

Use a 2-pack product with a catylist and you won't have those problems.

[CrazyManAndy]

I wonder if some apply them too heavily too quickly, causing a much slower cure time? There is some discussion about that here: http://www.reranch.com/reranch/viewtopic.php?t=20513

DGW, I understand that you dislike rattlecans. That's fine and dandy. But, to say they should not be used at all is wrong. Many hundreds of folks have used rattlecans (which, in and of itself, is a vague term; there are many types) with great success. If one does not have any equipment, there is no reason he can't get a great finish with rattlecans.

CMA

Edited June 10, 2008 by CrazyManAndy

[killemall8]

Acrylic is SUPPOSED to cure faster. But it usually doesn't. It cures to a useable hardness for other projects, but the kind of cure and shine we are looking to get for a guitar takes longer than they say. Nitro is usually 1 month cure and you are ready to wetsand. Acrylic doesn't cure as hard as nitro, people have a lot of problems shipping guitars finished in acrylic laquer because it usually imprints with the packing material. Nitro is a better bet.

You're obviously refering to rattlecan paintjobs ...

Use a 2-pack product with a catylist and you won't have those problems.

that doesnt really make sense. just becuse its nitro and acrylic laquer, doesnt mean they are rattle cans. you can get both in spray gun material.

[hexa-db]

Acrylic is SUPPOSED to cure faster. But it usually doesn't. It cures to a useable hardness for other projects, but the kind of cure and shine we are looking to get for a guitar takes longer than they say. Nitro is usually 1 month cure and you are ready to wetsand. Acrylic doesn't cure as hard as nitro, people have a lot of problems shipping guitars finished in acrylic laquer because it usually imprints with the packing material. Nitro is a better bet.

You're obviously refering to rattlecan paintjobs ...

Use a 2-pack product with a catylist and you won't have those problems.

Not everyone has the budget/space for a full spraying kit though

By the way I have seen 2k products in rattlecans (hardener in a seperate compartment, mixed by pushing a pin in the bottom of the can). Just thought I'd throw that in to add to the confusion

[fookgub]

I had typed up a long post with a bunch of recommendations, but, after thinking about it for a bit, I've decided to condense the list to just two options:

1. Use rattle-can nitro

Reasons:

- It's forgiving and easy to apply.

- You can get it easily (both the color and the clear).

- Using nitro for both color and clear greatly reduces your chances of having compatibility problems.

- No significant investment in equipment.

- It's easy to rub out.

- Dries reasonably hard and quickly. You will probably need to wait a month or even two before rubbing out, but it will provide a usable finish in the end.

- Professional paint systems are trickier, and, while you might get by with a Preval unit or a 2k rattle-can, best results are obtained with a good spray rig. More importantly, using professional paints requires more knowledge and practice.

Caveats:

- Rattle-can finishes build more slowly than finishes shot from a gun. Make sure to do enough clear coats to avoid sand-through.

2. Take it to a pro

Reasons:

- If you want an absolutely perfect, long-lasting finish with no fuss, this is the way to go.

Caveats:

- Find someone that knows how to finish guitars. Just because the guy at your local paint shop does great work on cars does NOT mean he has any idea how to properly finish a guitar. If you can't find someone with guitar experience at least find a custom painter. Someone that does high-end bikes or custom cars is likely to be much more detail-oriented than someone that does repair work.

- Do the prep work yourself and make sure it's perfect.

Anyway, that's a really sharp looking guitar you've got. Hope the refinishing works out!

Edited June 11, 2008 by fookgub

[ihocky2]

Acrylic is SUPPOSED to cure faster. But it usually doesn't. It cures to a useable hardness for other projects, but the kind of cure and shine we are looking to get for a guitar takes longer than they say. Nitro is usually 1 month cure and you are ready to wetsand. Acrylic doesn't cure as hard as nitro, people have a lot of problems shipping guitars finished in acrylic laquer because it usually imprints with the packing material. Nitro is a better bet.

You're obviously refering to rattlecan paintjobs ...

Use a 2-pack product with a catylist and you won't have those problems.

Yes I am, because that is what the original post was asking about. His second sentence he says he used car acrylic spray from a spray can. If he was asking about the two part acrylic's my answer would have been different.

[guitar101]

3 1/2 years ago now, I built a guitar (with loads of help from you folks on the forum!). I sprayed it with car acrylic spray from a rattlecan. It dried quickly, but took over a year to cure - during that time, i had used a normal guitar stand, and that ate through the uncured finish leaving it in a total mess. So, i've stripped it back down to the wood with nitromors (fantastic stuff!), put on / sanded back the sanding sealer and am ready to start again.

I have no plans (at the moment - no time) to build any other guitars, so want to be able to refinish using rattlecans rather than getting any other equipment. Over here in the UK, we can't get ReRanch nitro (due to shipping restrictions), but a guy at Manchester Guitar Tech does sell it here in the UK in Daphne Blue (which i'm after).

My question is - will nitro cure more quickly than acrylic? I'll wait a year or more for it to harden if i have to, but i'd really rather not (i know that nitro doesn't get on with rubber either, so would be steering clear of the old stand!).

Also (apart from opinions on tone), what other pro's and cons are there for acrylic/nitro?

Oh yeah, my other option is to try and find a car bodyshop that would spray it for me, but that would (i assume) be acrylic again.

I've had this guitar in bits for 6 months, and really want to get playing it again!!

This is a photo in its former glory

Thanks in advance!

[guitar101]

3 1/2 years ago now, I built a guitar (with loads of help from you folks on the forum!). I sprayed it with car acrylic spray from a rattlecan. It dried quickly, but took over a year to cure - during that time, i had used a normal guitar stand, and that ate through the uncured finish leaving it in a total mess. So, i've stripped it back down to the wood with nitromors (fantastic stuff!), put on / sanded back the sanding sealer and am ready to start again.

I have no plans (at the moment - no time) to build any other guitars, so want to be able to refinish using rattlecans rather than getting any other equipment. Over here in the UK, we can't get ReRanch nitro (due to shipping restrictions), but a guy at Manchester Guitar Tech does sell it here in the UK in Daphne Blue (which i'm after).

My question is - will nitro cure more quickly than acrylic? I'll wait a year or more for it to harden if i have to, but i'd really rather not (i know that nitro doesn't get on with rubber either, so would be steering clear of the old stand!).

Also (apart from opinions on tone), what other pro's and cons are there for acrylic/nitro?

Oh yeah, my other option is to try and find a car bodyshop that would spray it for me, but that would (i assume) be acrylic again.

I've had this guitar in bits for 6 months, and really want to get playing it again!!

This is a photo in its former glory

Thanks in advance!

Auto body clear is nothing like the acrylic in a rattle can. It drys overnight and really hard in a few days. I had my son's guitar painted at a body, shop base coat then clear coat and the results were great. You may have to use their base coat to avoid paint and clear coat reaction. The result is tough and durable. I've had good result using Minwax poly over stain but haven't tried it over paint. I'ts tougher than Nitro and dries fairly fast but not as fast as auto body clear. If I knew it would stick properly to paint I would try it because it is in my opinion tough enough for a guitar finish.

[stratoskier]

OK -- I'm getting confused here...

From reading many other posts, I thought I understood that you needed to sand lightly after the first few coats of clear, and between coats thereafter. But here, it sounds like you guys are saying that you shouldn't sand the clear at all until a month or so after it has cured, regardless of whether you're using acrylic lacquer or nitro. Do I understand that correctly? By the way, I'm using acrylic lacquer from rattle cans.

Thanks,

Bert

[Daniel Sorbera]

Scuff sanding is quite different than the final wet sanding they are talking about here.

FWIW I had decent (not anything like the 2 part stuff I spray now, but decent) results with the minwax single part poly in a rattle can. It cures in less than a week and is much harder than acrylic in a spray can.

[scab]

These guys are all talking about cure times. When I'm spraying my nitro-cellulose lacquer (from a booth) this is how it goes..

Day 1: 2 wash coats (50% lacquer/50% thinner)

1 top coat (90% lacquer/10% thinner)

pore fill

Day 2: no sanding.. pore fill dry day

Day 3: 1 wash coat

4 top coats

Day 4: sand out.. 150 grit or 220 grit serrated

gas off

if you're in a hurry you can spray day 5 today

Day 5: 1 wash coat

4 top coats

Day 6: sand out.. 150 or 220 grit serrated

gas off

if you're in a hurry you can spray day 7 today

Day 7: 2 top coats

We wait 2 weeks for curing time, but some builders force it to be shorter than that. Doing so, you may suffer from sinkage after guitar is all finished. The guitar will be completely cured after 6 months. So realistically I can spray 5 days and have a finish that has prooved to work great! If you spray w/ dry days between (day 4 & 6) you can wait much less time for the cure time.

Edited June 13, 2008 by scab

[davros]

Thanks for all the responses guys, looks like it might be worth me investigating car body shops as acrylic seems to be the least favourable option. 3 Cans of nitro (primer, colour, clear) comes to £45, (about $90) over here, so i'll see if a bodyshop can come close to that.

[Daniel Sorbera]

Thanks for all the responses guys, looks like it might be worth me investigating car body shops as acrylic seems to be the least favourable option. 3 Cans of nitro (primer, colour, clear) comes to £45, (about $90) over here, so i'll see if a bodyshop can come close to that.

Wow nitro rattle cans are that expensive over there? BTW your going to need between 5-9 cans of clear, not 1.

[CrazyManAndy]

BTW your going to need between 5-9 cans of clear, not 1.

5-9? For one guitar?

CMA

[DGW]

Thanks for all the responses guys, looks like it might be worth me investigating car body shops as acrylic seems to be the least favourable option. 3 Cans of nitro (primer, colour, clear) comes to £45, (about $90) over here, so i'll see if a bodyshop can come close to that.

Yep ...

And you also have to remember that you're still using spray cans!

You're not going to have the flexibility of air/paint/fan adjustents for true professional results IMO.

[Michel Levasseur]

I am not sure what you guys , most of you, anyway do with can spraying acrylic. I have 47 years of all kind of product, and in my enterprise of high-end canoe paddles all over the world to top athlete and the acrylic that I use is pure, colorless, and add 1/3 of xylene as a thinner for gun spraying; First just a fume, 15 min. a more glossy look, Half hours a full body coat but lay easy on the gun it's a runner. You can let it dry overnight, than, wet sand 320, 400, 600, and as the beginning a fume and one last glossy coat, You can buff it with a light  compound, personally I find it dulls it a bit, the best is to rub it vigorously with ``chamois", soft leather or the palm of your hand, the thing is by creating heat by friction it sort of melt and fills micro area without the need of re-coating. At the end you get a durable UV protection that is no thicker than saran-wrap! :)