avengers63 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Yea, I know it's really difficult to judge, but I'm asking anyway. I'm planning a really special project for later this year. It'll be a walnut body, VERY heavily chambered. I'm looking at about a 2" thick body with a 1/4"-3/8" laminate top. With the exception of the center block, I'm going to hollow out the rest of the body to the 1/4"-3/8" thickness. From previous threads, I'm confident that it'll be thick enough to be structurally sound. The body shape I'm going for will be very similar to an ES-175, but with a rounded horn. The widest part of the body will be about 14". How heavy would you estimate this to come in at? As long as it'd be no heavier than a regular LP, I'd be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Probably too heavy for what you have described. I love Walnut to build with, and I love chambering, they make a great combination for a standard sized electric. But the combination of your body wood selection (Walnut), guitar shape (3/4 ES-175), and projected design (Walnut center block)......will be too heavy for comfort most likely. Below...I did the exact (I think, from what you posted) same thing many years ago, never got around to finishing these yet. Widest width at the bridge area? ...14" exactly. Right now, w/o backs, they are both 1 7/8", so I think these are pretty much what you are describing. These bodies, as they sit, are 'barely' light enough to consider using once they're done, one is Alder, the other Mahogany, both lighter than Walnut. Walnut would have been over the top too heavy. The one on the left is the Mahogany body, and you can see where I went back and found areas to shave off more weight, as I thought it was too heavy originally. Great idea, probably wrong wood choice for the application. When you get to bodies of this size, every ounce -really- makes a difference. Alder is nice and light, Basswood, Spanish Cedar, Spruce, etc. would be the right weight. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted February 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Ironic that one of yours has a burl top. Mine will have one too. Your body sides look thicker than what I'm thinking of. Also, everything from the bridge to the bottom will be gone. Both of those will help with the weight issues. I have my mind made up on the walnut, so other lighter woods aren't even up for discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDub Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Is it for you? If so, you're the only one who'll have to live with the weight. My newest is LP shape, lightly chambered Mahogany, and it weighs a ton. But, I don't care,so it doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 What about looking into bent sides with kerfing to attach the top and bottom? Using a thicker top like you're planning, and a solid center block, would remove the need for bracing and all those considerations you have to deal with working around building an acoustic. But using acoustic-like bent sides means you can get the sides as thin (and thus lightweight) as possible, while still retaining some structural strength. As an added bonus, you don't have to deal with sanding/finishing end grain at the end of the instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted February 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 That's an awesome idea, but... I don't have any bending equipment, and I'm not going to buy any. If I did, I'd just make a straight semi-acoustic and get it over with. I really hate to poop all over such a good idea. I hope someone else sees it and runs with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 you only need a bit of pipe and a blow torch!!! Drak - i really like the way that maple burl tucks into a flame at the waist - looks like its wearing a corset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 you only need a bit of pipe and a blow torch!!! Is there a tutorial somewhere on how to make one? Without the torch would be best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I was desperate to find a better method to bend the plate for the back of my headstock as I kept cracking or warping the wood with other methods, so I scrounged around the garage and found a couple ghetto pieces to try this method and wow it worked wonders, bent the volute section on the back of my headstock near flawlessly and really quickly. I don't know about temperatures, but when researching I got a guestimation temp, which was figured by using water. Throw a drop on the pipe and when the water bounces around on the pipe, but doesn't burn off then its approximately warm enough. It seemed perfect when I did and when I turned it up even just a bit it burnt the wood, so that temp was just about perfect. The pipe I had was way too short, but it worked for just the tiny piece I used for the headstock. I'm sure i'd work great for wood binding as well. Anyhow, again it was just a ghetto quick throw together method, but it worked great. Pipe and end result headstock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 So it's just a matter of getting the metal hot enough - no water involved. When it's hot enough, you just work the wood over the pipe gently until it bends? 1) How long does it take to get the wood up to temp? 2) What's the working time once it's pliable? 3) How thin does the wood need to be? I can plane it down to just over 1/8" myself. If there's no moisture involved, would a heat gun get it hot enough? It bends formica and binding quickly, but that's plastic - wood is another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I didn't use any water for the process, other than to check the temperature. Yea, I basically just got the pipe up to temp and just kept working the wood until it started bending. I just applied pressure as much as I felt comfortable with, it was figured flatsawn bubinga, so too much and it just cracks or snaps. I don't think working time is all that long, but others will be able to tell you more, I just used it for this headstock cap which was maybe 2mm or something thick. I just used my router on a couple rails to get the wood down to the proper thickness, I'm sure you could go thicker though, it'd just take more time and maybe some water via spray bottle. I think Erik mentioned in another thread a liquid called supersoft 2 and I've heard it in another forum several times and haven't heard really anything bad about it, so it might be worth looking into. I'd avoid the heat gun, this is what I tried for the first several tries and its just too difficult to isolate the heat enough to prevent warping in other areas of the wood, far and away I found the pipe better. I tried several ways that I'd read about that just didn't work well at all and generally left the wood warped and not bent far enough. The pipe didn't warp the wood anywhere and it bent further. I created a caul prior to bending the wood which followed the shape of the volute, so once I bent the wood far enough, I put it in place, put the caul over it and clamped it all together to cool. As I said it worked pretty much perfectly and the picture is deceiving the curve on the volute was quite steep, especially for what wood and cut I was using. Some nice quartered wood would have been worlds easier I think. Anyhow, mine was just a ghetto version, worked fine, but I'm sure you could manage making a much better setup and it should have no issues doing what you want it to do, many acoustic builders used to and still do use a heat pipe for bending sides. I'm sure some of the other guys who know more about this will have some better help for you. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) Avenger63s you need to branch out! You have mastered the solid body build and now it is time for more...!!! We will talk about neck building soon So here is a good picture of the pipe you want -- Aluminum Bending pipe, 12” long, 2 7/8” OD you should be able to find locally... ask a machine shop. LMI Bending Pipe This is the best description I found with google.com http://clearstreamwood.com/WordPress/proje...jects/the-sides I have Benedetto's book Making an Archtop Guitar The Definitive book on how to build an archtop guitar. Can't wait to see the results! Edited February 9, 2009 by RestorationAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I discussed this "torch & pipe" thing with the wife. Basically, there's no way in he11 she's going to let me play with fire and wood anywhere near my workshop which is filled with sawdust and boards. Maybe in the summer... in the driveway... with a hose nearby... but not inside. Ever. Period. So what's the realistic working time once it's all softened up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I discussed this "torch & pipe" thing with the wife. Basically, there's no way in he11 she's going to let me play with fire and wood anywhere near my workshop which is filled with sawdust and boards. Never thought of it that way.... huh. Maybe I should be more careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHowell Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Have a look here:Pipe Bender Uses a 200 watt light bulb to heat pipe. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I agree with Keith, ^^. Many people do it the light bulb way, it works, and it's safe. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Now THAT'S an investment I'm comfortable making. I'll have to do come serious scrounging, but my brother-in-law has a butt-load of stuff in his garage I could get. I'm sure he has the bits to make this. So, how thick is the wood? If it's 1/8", I can do some experimentation. If it's thinner, it'll have to wait until I'm once again gainfully employed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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