Drak Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 That is about the most un-horror-fying looking guitar shape I've ever seen, ...but to each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcissism Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Someone should make one and call it... that thing that's on the end of your elbo... what's it called? Ah yes The Weenus So that's your vision of it and you're in, right? If I had a band saw and a table saw, you can bet your first born I'd be in this! However, space is limited, and I'd have to use a prefab neck, which I think would give me a lot of flack if I complete it and win. In a few years, I'll have a house and I'll give it a shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 If I had a band saw and a table saw, you can bet your first born I'd be in this! However, space is limited, and I'd have to use a prefab neck, which I think would give me a lot of flack if I complete it and win. I'll be using a pre-fab neck. It's on it's way right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Actually, you stirred me to thinking with the 'horror' statement, and it got me to drawing conclusions about Dracula, horror, and Corvus. The results were surprising. When I think of Dracula and horror, the basic subconcious things that immediately come to mind are: Sexuality Man-like Ruthless Power Strength Cruelty Control Manipulation Power Power Power ...those kinds of things... And when I look at the design of the Corvus, what I take away is this (and I'm not being negative, this is how it truly strikes me mentally as a designer) Confused Weak Child-like Maybe even slightly feminine-ish NOT powerful NOT strong Confused Confused Confused ...and when I thought about that, and the fact that almost everyone is trying to redesign it, my thoughts lead me to believe that everyone is trying to make the initial design...more manly and strong, in order to be able to identify enough with it to want to build or play it themselves. I think the design hits most people like it's hitting me, and subconsciously, if they are going to build one, they need it to be more MAN-like, more STRONG, more WICKED, because for whatever reason, I think the design hits us men in a subconsciously weak, confused, and feminine way, and most guys do not want to play a guitar like that. The horns on a strat are very man-like, the rounded symmetrical curve of a typical Gibson is looked at as 'sexy' or 'full and bountiful'. The Corvus design falls flat on every level, which I think is why it failed. It looks very confused and disoriented. Personally, I think the design team that OK'd it had no conception in mind except to make it look not like anything else. That was the primal aim, and to me as a designer, that is a very poor way to approach a new design. Instead of starting out asking yourself what new thing do you want to offer yourself or the world, you start out with the only aim being, make it unlike anything else. Not Male-like (strong) nor even Female-like (sexy). Just different to be different for different's sake. And to be quite truthful, after reading avengers reasons for wanting to build it, his reasons are almost exactly paralleling the original designers, just something not like anything else is his aim as well as stated by him. And that is perfectly OK and fine, but I am puzzled why so many others who obviously cannot STAND the thing why they want to build one. Maybe it is simple camaraderie with avengers, like the Athenians who helped out and supported the Spartans in their hopeless fight...even the Athenians offered alternative ideas and plans... Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anderekel Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 If I had a band saw and a table saw, you can bet your first born I'd be in this! However, space is limited, and I'd have to use a prefab neck, which I think would give me a lot of flack if I complete it and win. I'll be using a pre-fab neck. It's on it's way right now. Assuming I'm able to get one built (which shouldn't be too hard seeing as we have the extended period) I'll be using a neck I parted off an old washburn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Thoughts? I made my intentions and reasoning known in the Misc Stuff About Life thread. It's basically a mix of memories, nostalgia, and different for the sake of different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Thoughts? i aint aiming for more manly or strong... the aim would be more practical first and hopefully more graceful as i do think it can look bettr than the gibson original without departing from it to much - and peoples early deisgns are backing that up anyway, i guess i tend to consider all guitars as feminine, similar to a car or a ship i suppose. the corvus is the quirky girl from any generic teen film. you may not notice straight away, the sort that just needs to take her glasses off and let her hair down for the end of the film and what do you know... she was beautiful all along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 ^ That was very, very well said Wez ^ I applaud the fact that you know what you're looking for, as every creative person will have something of their own identity to bring to the table when they design, and your post couldn't have been better expressed, far better than I did it. Just looking for some mentally stimulating ideas behind why people like certain things, why they don't, and what difference would make them like it and why that is. Reading all these posts about modifying this thing has caused me to ask...Why! Just to stick a horn on it might be a good idea, but why does the horn make it look better to a lot of people? What is it about that horn that works? (just using a horn as an example) There is always a reason if you dig for it, and I find those reasons interesting, it sort of makes a creative person identify themselves a little more clearly, and makes people who are working at being more creative improve their focus and design better Getting to the why's behind a design change digs under the surface of the change itself. Why does it work? Why do people like it better? Why? Is there more road to travel to get to the final draft, the best it can be? And avengers, I was not digging at your wish to build this thing at all, I have said several times over I think you should proceed forward. Having said that, I don't find it offensive to disagree with someone or their opinions as long as it's done respectfully. I question everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 (edited) i think its not the "horn" that makes it look better i think it just balances better visually with it Edited March 14, 2009 by Kenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 And avengers, I was not digging at your wish to build this thing at all, I have said several times over I think you should proceed forward. Having said that, I don't find it offensive to disagree with someone or their opinions as long as it's done respectfully. I question everything. smile.gif Thanks for saying that. I really appreciate the words. I didn't take it badly, but I understand better safe than sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Thoughts? plenty in the case against here... Can-Opener Thread Drak...a great post...particularly this... Getting to the why's behind a design change digs under the surface of the change itself. Why does it work? Why do people like it better? Why? Is there more road to travel to get to the final draft, the best it can be? That was my intention in pouring a lot of loving attention on this thing...to encourage people to think about this, and other designs they may be considering. To do some homework and work towards "best it can be" even if that "best" is to be different or quirky...or simply reactionary. In particular, I find some of Gibson's designs of this era to be cynical and misguided but fender did similar things (should people think I am simply anti-gibson or pro-fender)...like this fender Katana from 1985... will this monumental failure from it's rival be the next "build-off"? There is also some interesting history and business law to learn here, both companies were nearing their death throws..both were saved by returning to better quality control of good solid products in demand in the market place and by people with renewed attention and love for the products. Such history can be instructive in these times. But the 80's also saw the rise of innovative stuff from Ibanez and Jackson and a host of others...often with 80's excess, but with more savvy and design skills. It also opened the door for so much custom building and the project guitar kind of thing in a big way and in the hands of DIYers like EVH and commercial artist models. In defense of trying to "correct" the design...in slamming the corvus I was hoping (and there has been some) that people would reflect upon why it fails. So often people have drawn out a "shape" in an attempt to be different or whatever without answering the "whys" above...in taking something like this and the feeling some expressed (that it is different and so has some attractiveness) and that there were faults...there is a forum to express what is wrong, what would be "better" and "why". A worthwhile "exercise" if not to build, at least to consider and to read and consider. Other than that...maybe there are some things that people like about it that isn't simply perverse. By trying to defend or fix the thing may open people up to the design process and aesthetic theory to create original twists on the guitar that do work. Is there more road to travel to get to the final draft, the best it can be? In most cases yes...in the corvus, certainly (from gibson's perspective)...we have all drawn or even built stuff that was "wrong" but the idea is to learn and refine those ideas to retain the aesthetics (whatever they may be) while paying some attention to functionality and the whys and the hows of building a guitar. great posts drak... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 There is also some interesting history and business law to learn here, both companies were nearing their death throws..both were saved by returning to better quality control of good solid products in demand in the market place and by people with renewed attention and love for the products. Such history can be instructive in these times. But the 80's also saw the rise of innovative stuff from Ibanez and Jackson and a host of others...often with 80's excess, but with more savvy and design skills. It also opened the door for so much custom building and the project guitar kind of thing in a big way and in the hands of DIYers like EVH and commercial artist models. Also an excellent post, I completely agree, when looking into the why's of why a company does what it does, a lot of people who have no hands-on business experience fail to comprehend the real issues that face a company sometimes when trying to figure out why a company makes the decisions it does, and their answers can be almost completely bottom-line financially driven, which includes choice of materials, proximity of materials to the business (shipping), pay scale for labor and tooling, etc. Great post! Rock On Corvus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 is this the point i admit i am quite drawn to a katana. to me they really are awfull, more than a corvus, but thats almost a challenge i also quite like the fender performer: it aint perfect but as a source of inspiration i do like it, my recent baritone has a nod towards it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I can dig the Performer, but not the Katana. The Performer looks like a Fender-ized Parker Fly. The Katana.... I've said repeatedly that sometimes I like different just for the sake of different. But that thing just doesn't have any shape. At least it looks like SOME design went into the Corvus, even so far as to make it a stylized crow. The Katana is just a triangular piece of scrap with a couple of jagged points cut into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Hey...I purposely left out mentioning the half decent performer (the headstock was all wrong) because it at least didn't have any systemic design flaws... Talking about strange attraction...I have bursts of the perverse...and this always had that weird kind of strange attraction... But I have always had something for "reversed shapes" (explorer, mosrite, iceman, firebird, etc)... Shades of the corvus here again, but then this one failed in '67 so what's gibsons excuse! The funny thing about the katana is that it was made at the same time as the corvus and just like the corvus borrowed heavily from the house of fender (bolt on neck, in line tuners, 3xSC option, lever switch and scratchplate electronics) fender borrowed from gibson with similar failures (bound fretboard, 2xHB's, no scratchplate, V shape) while both built in a host of profoundly bad design faults in the process. That's what happens when people take over a company and have no idea what they are actually do and have no idea who their customers are and seemingly didn't care. With F'n'G, (CBS/Norlin) both companies seemed to be so focused on each other as rivals rather than producing products for players. Fortunately, Ibanez and others were able to fill the gap and give us more diversity. Hopefully the corvus and looking at some of these "black sheep" from the attic, we can avoid creating further mistakes. This era by the big makers and particularly poor designs like this opened the door for custom builders...so, perhaps that is the redeaming feature of guitars like the corvus! (there, I said something good about it!) pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I loved that shape when Yamaha brought it out as the SGV300, I didn't realize they were recreating one of their instruments from the 60's. That's a build I could get behind. Kind of like the katana, not a fan of the performer (although I like the similar design aspects echoed in Wez's build.) But god I hate the headstocks on those handful of models Fender made with the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcissism Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 The corvus makes me think of a Les Paul with a few triangles cut out of it. Same goes for the katana, which makes me think of a Rhoads or standard V without the points That last one looks like someone tried to make the Iceman more bluesy or something... with that weird looking bridge... what the hell is that? The only guitar I can see that bridge looking good on is the one that Ted Nugent plays. Remember Alex Skolnick's Ibanez: Deamon guitars? They were just regular RG shapes flipped upside down. I thought they were hideous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 The corvus makes me think of a Les Paul with a few triangles cut out of it. That's exactly what it IS!!!! Same goes for the katana, which makes me think of a Rhoads Not sure, but I am pretty certain that it predates the rhodes That last one looks like someone tried to make the Iceman Well, this does predate the iceman, but the iceman story is fantastic. The asian (japanese) guitar makers got together and designed the iceman in an attempt to create a design that was identifiably different and identifiable from the USA designs. I'm sure that guitars like this had an influence on the design process as much as the more obvious american explorers and firebirds...unlike gibson and fender who countered with the corvus and katana, these makers put some effort into designing something aesthetically different yet functionally very good. It's kind of ironic that they were coming out of the law suit era of making copies that F'n'G would come up with these kinds of things. It was important time for custom builders, small makers and particularly things like the Ibanez models and others. It should make one question the skill and motivation of management companies that had taken over F'n'G (CBS/Norlin) and reflect upon such decisions of other industries like guitar makers and the financial institutions that make appalling decisions for profits over product and running themselves into the ground. The recovery of F'n'G are both important lessons (and cool stories), as are makers like PRS who could see the kind of direction the big two should have and could have gone. While both F'n'G survived (just) and quality control has improved onder new management, they still have to rely on the original designs of their founders and still seem to lack the creativity to come up with new designs of merit. Anyway...Corvus...an interesting symptom of a company in decay! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Well, this does predate the iceman, but the iceman story is fantastic. The asian (japanese) guitar makers got together and designed the iceman in an attempt to create a design that was identifiably different and identifiable from the USA designs. now if we want to talk about strongly male designs - the iceman is it. always wanted to build one but never quite got round to it, although my vendetta shape is kind of like an organic iceman meets ravelle i always liked those yamahas and finally got to play a few 60's originals before xmas, it put me off them quite quickly. Well made and everything, typical yamaha quality - didnt think it looked good on a strap though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 now if we want to talk about strongly male designs - the iceman is it. snigger...I got to quote freud at this point..."sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"...me thinks you are seeing more than was intended... Anyway...the strat is twice the man/guitar than a les paul by those standards...hahaha...pass me another cigar! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 i actually ordered that quote on a poster for my classroom earlier in the week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 the strat is twice the man/guitar than a les paul by those standards. Well..I think it was already established that an LP brings forth thoughts of a fertile woman,while a strat is much more "male" But the RG ,Warlock,V,etc...are much more "male" and much more "metal" How 'bout Dat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge for november Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 @draks reaction to my (gonna be) horror corvus, Varney is the oposite of sexy. He is described as being a hideous cadaverous kinda guy. That's not the reason I'm reffering to him though. My guitar will have "bite mark inlays on the neck" which of course suggests female instead of the male you mentioned in your dracula list. The horror idea came to me because of the reference to a battle axe. I've been drawing life size, and figured that I'm staying quite close to the original in shape. Some minor adjustments that hopefully will make it visualy more balanced. Soon I'll post pics of the template drawings... Looking forward to other contestants work! Liking the upside down corvax so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Then maybe more 'Nosferatu'-ish than Dracula? Vampires have always -traditionally- been about sexual prowess, power, control, and above average strength. Vlad the Impaler is/was a better model for a vampire than Nosferatu, Vlad was all the above and -then- some, but the legend of the Vampire has certainly been interpreted a thousand different ways over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge for november Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 (edited) I don't know much, except that Varney the Vampyre is the granddad of m all (written in 1867 I believe and basically the first ever fiction novel on vampires) and he's all but sexy. That came later in vampire history I guess. At least one thing he did right was bite a beautifull woman Cheers PS for those interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varney_the_Vampire I have a two book edition, which is basically a scanned and printed version of the first pressing or something. Including inconsistencies, pretty cool. I've finished part one and am currently about a quarter into the second part. It's pretty interesting but slow as **** and in old English, so sometimes it's a bit difficult to pick up. Edited March 15, 2009 by Dirge for november Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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