Top Loading Fixed Bridges

[AccidentalChef]

I'm in the process of gathering up the parts for my first build, and I'm having a little trouble picking out the bridge I'm going to use. I'm also working on getting all of the relevant templates designed, so I'm at the point where I need to finalize my hardware choices so I can get them finished up. Here's what I'm looking for:

1. Fixed bridge. I'm not a big trem user, and to be honest, I don't want to route for one on this build.

2. Not a Tune-O-Matic. It just isn't the look I want for this guitar. This also goes for the wraparound types, since I'd want to recess it, which seems that it would make changing strings extremely difficult.

3. No strings through the body. I don't want to see string ferrules on the back, and I don't want to risk drilling them imperfectly.

4. Gold. I'm using a walnut top and I think the warmer color of gold will look much better than chrome or black. This shouldn't be a problem, but it's still a requirement.

I'm aware of a few options, but I'm not sure which way I should go. The bridges I've looked at so far are the Schaller ( http://guitar-machine-heads.com/hp135016/3-D6.htm ), ABM ( http://www.allparts.com/store/guitar-bridg...002,Product.asp can be found cheaper elsewhere, but allparts has the biggest picture), Kahler ( http://www.wammiworld.com/u7330.html ), and of course the cheap strat-style bridges that can be found on eBay or elsewhere for about $20.

I'm curious if anyone has any experience with any of these. I'm currently leaning towards the Schaller, since the ABM and Kahler both just look too big, and my design isn't a huge body to start with. I do like the style of the ABM the best, but it just looks too long to me. I'm not a huge fan of the fine tuners on the Kahler, since they make the bridge bigger, and seem completely unnecessary for a fixed bridge. I also feel like the cheap bridges don't look nearly as good as the other options. I'd rather get the right bridge to start with than be disappointed in the finished guitar because of it, even if it does cost me quite a bit more up front. Is one of these bridges clearly better than the rest, or are there any that I've missed?

[NotYou]

Have you thought about wraparounds?

I'm a big fan of this one:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailp..._Tailpiece.html

[AccidentalChef]

I've looked at the wraparounds, but I feel like they'd appear to stick up from the body more than I want. If I recessed one, I'm not sure I'd be able to change the strings easily enough. I want something that mounts flush to the body for this design. My original design is here ( http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...c=39944&hl= ) and it's only changed very slighty as I've thought about it over the past couple of months. I feel like it needs a bridge that looks more like a trem than a TOM, but I don't actually want a trem on this one.

[Maiden69]

From the ones you posted, the Kahler would be my choice. All the others are inferior.

[Keegan]

I'm going to use a schaller top-loading on my current build. I'll let you know how it goes. I like it because the string spacing is adjustable, the intonation range is huge, and you only have to drill 3 holes. Plus since one of the holes is right in the center, you can place it a lot easier. It looks comfortable for palm-muting too. Plus it's the lowest cost aside from the cheap-ass chinese one.

Warmoth sells it for the cheapest I believe, only $78.

[anderekel]

I say you get this one http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?...detail&p=33 I've wanted to actually see one on a guitar for a while.

Oh, damn, I just noticed you said it had to be gold. Go with the kahler then. You might even want to look at the kahler hybrid, that has a set screw that you can set it to be fixed or floating, in case you ever decided you wanted to mess with a trem, gotta route a little with that one though.

Edited May 10, 2009 by anderekel

[AccidentalChef]

Maiden69, any particular reason you feel like the Kahler is the best of them?

Keegan, I can't wait to hear how that one turns out. I've done some google searching, but opinions on the Schaller are hard to find. By the way, cool to see another Colorado builder. I'm in Denver.

Andrekel: Wow, that bridge is awesome, especially with how much I'm playing with alternate tunings lately. It's not the right bridge for this build, but I might have to design a future guitar around it. That thing is just plain rad.

By the way, this forum is awesome. There are so many knowledgeable people who are so quick to help out. Hiscock's book is great and everything, but the wealth of information here is just amazing. Thanks to everyone for their advice.

[anderekel]

The simple fact of what maiden said, and I agree with, is that Kahler's are just made of great materials and are machined to very high tolerances.

[Keegan]

Oh, and there's also this http://guitarworks.thestrandbergs.com/products/

The gold is more of an orange though, and it requires some routing.

[westhemann]

I have used the schaller before and it is a solid,professional piece of equipment...

I also have in my hands a kahler fixed bridge,and it is even better quality,and the ease f changing strings is much preferred...

The schaller's one drawback is that when pulling strings in and out of it it's very easy to damage a less that extremely hard finish...because the string holes are so close to the top.

But you will need a neck angle for the kahler,unless you recess it...which could also be very,very cool.

Hope that helps.

[Keegan]

What's the difference in weight between the kahler and schaller? The kahler looks like it weighs a ton.

The string thing doesn't seem so bad, you could just put a cloth down when changing the strings.

[westhemann]

no room for a cloth...you could mask the top,but why would you want to?

It is fine,Keegan...just make sure you are careful,that's all...

The kahler weighs a few ounces more...but who cares?The schaller is fairly heavy itself.They will both do the trick...the kahler is just superior in most respects.

[Keegan]

I was just curious. I might consider it for something else.

[westhemann]

One other small thing I did not like about the schaller...all of the adjustment screws tend to "walk" while you play...not the intonation,but the height adjustment and the saddles from side to side...they spin under the string and move.You might fix that with some threadlock of some type though...

[Keegan]

Hmm, that sounds like it could be bad.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Keegan

[AccidentalChef]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm considering the Kahler a little more seriously now, but I'm still concerned it'll be too big or just not work with the design. Here's the latest mock-up I've got online, by the way:

In that picture, the bridge is a Hipshot, which I do like the look of. If it were top loading, I'd probably just go with that. I'm trying to picture the Kahler on there, and I'm not sure yet if I can see it working with the design. Any opinions on how it might look?

Also, Wes, could you give me an idea of the dimensions of the Kahler? I haven't been able to find a decent spec sheet online. Any idea how far I'd have to recess it to avoid a neck angle? I'm more opposed to things sticking too far above the body (strings, bridge, pickups, etc) than the neck angle, though I'd like to avoid both.

[anderekel]

There it is with a kahler, I like it. Sorry about the color, the first one I found was silver, so I messed with it a bit in photoshop, but you get the idea.

[Keegan]

Looks like a good guitar for the Kahler. Did you find specs on it? I'm curious if it'll fit my guitar.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Keegan

[westhemann]

Maiden recessed his kahler,maybe he could tell you how far?

[SwedishLuthier]

I *think* that the Hipshot bridge you have in the first mockup is the same as the one I used on a guitar that I shipped three weeks ago. And that is not a top-loading bridge. It is string through, lika Tele...

I have only used the shaller bridge for bass (two of them), but I have had no problems with them. As mentioned, solid units with the added bonus of adjustable string spread. I have one of the basses myself and I have also noted that you have to pay attention to the saddle-wheels while changing strings as they are most likely to shift when doing that. I have also had problems with that while playing, but olny minor ones. Nothing that a drop of super glue wouldn't fix.

[WezV]

i like those schaller bridges, but like a kahler you need to be aware of string height. Both bridges work best with the saddles set high on their adjustment. because this increases the downward pressue on the saddles the schallers rollers will be less likely to move... i also had the strings popping out of the rollers the first time i used one as i had the saddles set very low. a quick recess allowed the saddles to be raised and no more popping

[RestorationAD]

I have a few of the ABM bridges and they are very high quality with good weight to them. Also sit very close to the body you might not need a recess.

[WezV]

Also sit very close to the body you might not need a recess.

if its a top loading bridge and also low profile then chances are that there is not enough downward pressure on the saddles when they are set to there lowest point. this is the problem with the schaller, and also kahlers when set with the saddles low - but any bridge where the string attaches only slightly lower than the saddle height may have issues... a common feature on toploaders that feed in from the back

this can lead to problems such as the string popping out of place when strummed hard or just a general lack of tone.

my point is that you should allow for this when deciding on neck angle. i made the mistake of measuring the schaller bridge height set to its lowest point and that is really not ideal for this style of bridge (works fine for most string through body bridges). a recess was a fix for it on a set neck guitar, a shim in the neck pocket would have fixed it with a bolt-on neck. better would be to have allowed for it from the start - which is what i learned from that guitar and a few others i have seen with similar problems since!

i tend to recess kahlers anyway, but its really a decision based on how much neck angle i want

[RestorationAD]

Also sit very close to the body you might not need a recess.

if its a top loading bridge and also low profile then chances are that there is not enough downward pressure on the saddles when they are set to there lowest point. this is the problem with the schaller, and also kahlers when set with the saddles low - but any bridge where the string attaches only slightly lower than the saddle height may have issues... a common feature on toploaders that feed in from the back

this can lead to problems such as the string popping out of place when strummed hard or just a general lack of tone.

my point is that you should allow for this when deciding on neck angle. i made the mistake of measuring the schaller bridge height set to its lowest point and that is really not ideal for this style of bridge (works fine for most string through body bridges). a recess was a fix for it on a set neck guitar, a shim in the neck pocket would have fixed it with a bolt-on neck. better would be to have allowed for it from the start - which is what i learned from that guitar and a few others i have seen with similar problems since!

i tend to recess kahlers anyway, but its really a decision based on how much neck angle i want

+1 Agreed.

With no neck angle at all I recessed the ABM about 1/8" never had issues with popping out or lack of down force on the saddles. I would say (without measuring) that you would like to plan a 1-2 degree neck angle with the ABM mounted flush.

I recess all my bridges to keep the strings close to the body as personal preference.

[Maiden69]

Maiden69, any particular reason you feel like the Kahler is the best of them?

Wes just answered for me... I guess I was a little late.

I like it because it is heavier, sturdier, and you have a lot of adjustments that will not have with the other bridges. String height, spacing, fine tuning at the bridge. Very user friendly.

I also have in my hands a kahler fixed bridge,and it is even better quality,and the ease f changing strings is much preferred...

But you will need a neck angle for the kahler,unless you recess it...which could also be very,very cool.

Maiden recessed his kahler,maybe he could tell you how far?

I did recessed mine, not because I wanted, but because I measured wrong on my last pass on the neck pocket and the fretboard ended too low. I went about 1/4" down, until the top of the bridge foot was flush with the top of the guitar.