Snookie Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Hullo Two years ago, I bought my first guitar. A year ago it fell from it's Hercules stand because the feet on that thing don't lock up. http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-G...cial-faded.aspx It looked almost identical to this one. It snapped from below the nut and halfway up the middle of the head. I took it to the insurance company and this guy came in to evaluate it. He said he knew a man in the city who could fix it and he sent it to him. It probably took the the "luthier" about two months to fix the crack. I was not pleased with the quality of the repair. It cost me 250$ to have it repaired and the insurance company payed the guy an extra 750$ or 500$ - a total ripoff? Here are some pictures of the guitar the week I got it home: http://gtrreepair.deviantart.com/gallery/#_browse/scraps I will delete this deviantart account after this business - I just don't know any other way to post pictures. Please tell me what you think of the repair. If the feedback is negative, I'm considering going back to the insurance company. English is my second language and I'm not proficient in the use of guitar lingo. Thank you http://gtrreepair.deviantart.com/gallery/#_browse/scraps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workingman Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I could not load the pictures but the repair price is high even if it was perfect. Do you have proof the insurance agent paid anything? The US retail price on this guitar is about $700. So if the repair cost was over that (i.e. your $250 plus $500-750) it should have been considered a total loss and you should have gotton your replacement cost less your deductable. Something smells wrong here. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 It does seem expensive for that type of work...I really don't know that much about it though...I did that same quality work converting a righty guitar to a lefty for free as a favor on a $200 ibanez...meanin that it looked okay and played perfectly,but you could easily see it had been converted... But for $1000 I promise you would never be able to tell...but those headstock repairs are tricky. Rhoads56 would be the expert...I seem to remember he told me he does alot of those repairs...and he IS a pro.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Looks like a pretty bad repair to me even though your pictures are a bit small. First you should have not paid the guy if it wasn't to your liking. Secondly you should go back to your insurance company an ask to speak to a supervisor. Let them know that you were directed by them to this repair man and that you are not happy with the repair. According to your post they paid him directly so they are responsible for the repair being properly done. Unless you gave him the check they sent you in which case you are screwed. If Workman is right and the book value is $700 than you should have received a check for everything minus your deductible. That is if the way it works. Who is your insurance company? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snookie Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Looks like a pretty bad repair to me even though your pictures are a bit small. First you should have not paid the guy if it wasn't to your liking. Secondly you should go back to your insurance company an ask to speak to a supervisor. Let them know that you were directed by them to this repair man and that you are not happy with the repair. According to your post they paid him directly so they are responsible for the repair being properly done. Unless you gave him the check they sent you in which case you are screwed. If Workman is right and the book value is $700 than you should have received a check for everything minus your deductible. That is if the way it works. Who is your insurance company? You can make them bigger by clicking on them a couple of times or downloading them in the original size of 2000x2000 pixels. There are also small comments included if you click on the pictures. As I recall it, the luthier in question sent a bill to the insurance company and they charged me a part of the total sum. A lot of peaple agreed with me when I told them that the repair was not satisfactory but people also told me it looked good - perhaps out of sympathy. I've been meaning to make a topic like this for some time but I really had my hands full this winter in school. That's no excuse tho I payed almost 1000$ for the guitar w/ shipping and taxes - a steal at the time. I live in Iceland and so I'm doing these calculations into dollars pre-economy crash. And I also think that you are not interested in a foreign insurance company. It's called VÍS anyway I will go to my insurance company and ask compensations if I get some more responses similar to yours What baffles me is that in the capital, where the luthier lives and operates, there is a Gibson dealer who has their own repairman. I called the dealer up and he told me their repairman does these jobs all the time. Why didn't the insurance company send the guitar to the dealer for repairing? Was the guy, that the insurance company got to evaluate the guitar, doing his luthier pal in town a favour by getting him work? I had to pick the guitar up myself because the man was travelling abroad and so his friend let me in to get it. His workshop was some dirty place behind a bakery. It did not look professional at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anderekel Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Well, it looks to me like you got taken. I don't know about the price. But for a total of 750-1000 bucks, you might be able to see where the headstock broke (since it's a transparent finish) but there is no way in hell you should have those drips. I don't see how someone would let that out of their shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 From just looking at the pictures I would say that the repair in it self looks as good as one could expect. It is almost impossible to get away with a repair like that without some visible tracks left. But the finishing job is a completely different thing. Judging from the finish on the tuner it looks like he has done a brush on job (spilling some finish on the tuner while still on the guitar indicates a brush job), but looking at the dribble on the fretboard it looks like he has done a spay job but failed to mask off the fretboard properly! At the same time a lot of the color shades and so on in the finish can be the light/camera plying a trick, making everything looks different from the real deal. Anyhow, there should never ever be drips on tuners or on the fretboard when a guitar leaves a repair shop after a supposedly professional repair job. All of that should have been cleaned of. Period. So that is a start for your discussion with the insurance company. Something like that would never be allowed to leave my shop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snookie Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) From just looking at the pictures I would say that the repair in it self looks as good as one could expect. It is almost impossible to get away with a repair like that without some visible tracks left. But the finishing job is a completely different thing. Judging from the finish on the tuner it looks like he has done a brush on job (spilling some finish on the tuner while still on the guitar indicates a brush job), but looking at the dribble on the fretboard it looks like he has done a spay job but failed to mask off the fretboard properly! At the same time a lot of the color shades and so on in the finish can be the light/camera plying a trick, making everything looks different from the real deal. Anyhow, there should never ever be drips on tuners or on the fretboard when a guitar leaves a repair shop after a supposedly professional repair job. All of that should have been cleaned of. Period. So that is a start for your discussion with the insurance company. Something like that would never be allowed to leave my shop... Exactly! I whouldn't have minded a VERY visible crack but the finish job just ruins the feel of the neck. Why did he even go so far down? It almost reaches the body for crying out loud! There is also alot of finish on the side of the fretboard and on the nut. He also left his fingerprint on the front of the headstock in something that is probably glue or finish. Another interesting thing is the matter of the strings. When the guitar broke, I didn't take the strings off but handed it over with strings still on. When I got it back, the same strings were on it (Does that mean something?) and I also had to use a wrench to tighten the tuning machines because one or two were sticking out. They probably got that way when it fell to the ground head first. ( But shouldn't he have done something about it?!) And the pictures don't do the discolouring justice - it's worse. The neck is very cloudy or... mosaik? It has varies of shades all over, none of them the original colour I fell in love with. Thanks Edited June 18, 2009 by Snookie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anderekel Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Well, here's what (as far as I know) should have been done, at least as a general rule of thumb for this. The tuners and the strings should have been taken off (and new strings put on at the end, but in the big scheme of things that really isn't a big deal). The neck repaired. Then the finish around the area sanded off (maybe even the whole neck since it's a transparent finish that gets darker the more you put on). Then the best way to do the new finish would be to spray it, to try and keep an even finish on it. With the runs he should have at least sanded them down, and like the everyone said, the fretboard should have been taped off and there shouldn't be anything on it. As well as that fingerprint you just mentioned, that's just sad, I would hope anyone would clean glue and finish and whatnot off their hands before they touch an instrument. As far as the finish color, it might be difficult to get an exact match, since even the thickness of a transparent finish affects it's color. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snookie Posted June 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Well, here's what (as far as I know) should have been done, at least as a general rule of thumb for this. The tuners and the strings should have been taken off (and new strings put on at the end, but in the big scheme of things that really isn't a big deal). The neck repaired. Then the finish around the area sanded off (maybe even the whole neck since it's a transparent finish that gets darker the more you put on). Then the best way to do the new finish would be to spray it, to try and keep an even finish on it. With the runs he should have at least sanded them down, and like the everyone said, the fretboard should have been taped off and there shouldn't be anything on it. As well as that fingerprint you just mentioned, that's just sad, I would hope anyone would clean glue and finish and whatnot off their hands before they touch an instrument. As far as the finish color, it might be difficult to get an exact match, since even the thickness of a transparent finish affects it's color. Just a thought. Was there even a need to apply finish after the repair? Now the neck feels coated in plastic but it used to be the texture of wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anderekel Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 I was under the assumption that it would be a regular finish like the majority of instruments. Did it have an oil finish? That would be my guess if it felt like wood before and plastic now. That would mean that he didn't even bother to use the same finish that was on it before, that's just sad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snookie Posted June 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) I was under the assumption that it would be a regular finish like the majority of instruments. Did it have an oil finish? That would be my guess if it felt like wood before and plastic now. That would mean that he didn't even bother to use the same finish that was on it before, that's just sad... Well, here you can see how well he blended the new finish into the old: http://gtrreepair.deviantart.com/art/Back-of-head-126263815 Here's some more on the original finish: http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-G...d/Finishes.aspx And I googled "oil finish" and I think you may be right One thing that bothers me alot with the new finish is that it has WAY more friction than the old one For instance, when I slide my finger down the back of the headstock (from old finish to new as you can see in the picture) I feel much more counterforce to my movement when I arrive at the new finish. It goes from feeling like paper to... I dunno... a window? .. plastic with more friction than... paper... Well, as I mentioned earlier the finish goes a long way down - almost down to the last fret - so this might even hinder my movement along the neck I hope I'm easy enough to understand becouse, as I said in the first post, I'm foreign and new to guitar and carpenting lingo EDIT: And one thing to consider is that the crack doesn't even reach the 1st fret Edited June 20, 2009 by Snookie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anderekel Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-G...cial-faded.aspx It talks about the finish there. Basically it's a stain with a hand applied finish and fewer coats. Doesn't specify what it is exactly, but it sounds like an oil finish or something very close, and looks like it too. Judging from your picture there of the two finishes together, the guy just didn't really care about the finished product, didn't even attempt to keep it similar to the original finish. Really smooth finishes can feel like they create a lot more friction, not sure why, but I've definitely experienced it. So, anything gonna happen with the whole insurance thing? I mean it's obvious that the guy did a less than acceptable job on the finish, but is there anything you can do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakhahn Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) You said there is a Gibson dealership near the "luthier" that did the repair. What if the dealership had a look at your guitar and documented for your insurance company what is wrong with the repair and what it would take to make it right. It also wouldn't hurt to have some photo's of similar repairs the dealership has done to show the insurance company how it should look. If they are anything like my old insurance company they will make a fuss about it, just stay on them until it is right. I wish you luck with this, it's sad to see someone messing up one of your instruments. Edited June 20, 2009 by Dakhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snookie Posted June 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 So, anything gonna happen with the whole insurance thing? I mean it's obvious that the guy did a less than acceptable job on the finish, but is there anything you can do? If I can't get anyone in this forum to say that this repair looks professional and worth the money, I will take actions I can issue a complaint this week or the next demanding that the insurance company takes responsibility for the man's presumably shoddy work and that they replace the guitar or finance another one of the same quality One reason for me taking action, aside from finally having ample time, is perhaps becouse a friend of mine recently had the same situation with his laptop He spilled soda on it and had it repaired by the local technician but a month later it stopped working again and he took it to another repairman That one said that the alleged repairs had consisted of someone trying - and failing - to wipe the soda off the internal hardware My friend got enough money from the insurance company to buy a better computer (Well, becouse computers get better and cheaper as time goes by..) I just now realized the similarities though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snookie Posted June 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 You said there is a Gibson dealership near the "luthier" that did the repair. What if the dealership had a look at your guitar and documented for your insurance company what is wrong with the repair and what it would take to make it right. It also wouldn't hurt to have some photo's of similar repairs the dealership has done to show the insurance company how it should look. If they are anything like my old insurance company they will make a fuss about it, just stay on them until it is right. I wish you luck with this, it's sad to see someone messing up one of your instruments. Thank you The thing is, even though the dealership is close to the luthier, neither are very close to me and so I've had no real oppertunities to take my guitar there Also, the day I picked the guitar up on was a holiday so it was closed I actually tried to get in contact with the repairman of the dealership so I might at least send him the pictures for him to look at but he was away on vacation I believe that was my original purpose when I took the pictures of the repair I might just try to get in contact with the man again now that I already have the pictures on display online You may be right. Perhaps I neet somebody to document it for the insurance company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherokee6 Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I vote for a non-professional job. In fact, many of the members here are extremely talented and could have easily done a superior job. The glue up doesn't look too bad, but this guy has no pride in his product. The finishing is horrendous. I agree with checking with the luthier at the Gibson shop. I think complaining will turn the heat up on the agent as the company could have paid a lot less for a better repair. Sounds fishy; do you think the agent got a kick-back? Pursue it as "the squeeky wheel gets the oil" as we say in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snookie Posted June 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 I vote for a non-professional job. In fact, many of the members here are extremely talented and could have easily done a superior job. The glue up doesn't look too bad, but this guy has no pride in his product. The finishing is horrendous. I agree with checking with the luthier at the Gibson shop. I think complaining will turn the heat up on the agent as the company could have paid a lot less for a better repair. Sounds fishy; do you think the agent got a kick-back? Pursue it as "the squeeky wheel gets the oil" as we say in this country. Thank you, every vote counts I called the Gibson dealer today to get in touch with the repairman but when I asked if they had one, the dealer told me he had quit a while back. But I got the dealers review! I showed him the pictures and told him what the man had charged and he said that the price was ridiculous and the quality of the work - judgin by the pictures - unsatisfactory. He told me that their luthier had repaired broken necks for 250$ and that he had been very good. Like, an insurance agent? If yes then: No, I don't actually think that he got a kick-back. I just think he didn't know any better. Cool saying - had to think about it for a minute Looks like I'm going to the insurance company after the weekend to ask for maximum compensations in a firm yet polite manner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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