Bolt On Vs Set

[WezV]

do whichever you can imagine doing more clearly with teh resources you have

i prefer SG's as neck through since the neck join is a notorious weak area on them, but most are set neck and do survive

if you do want to go bolt-on take a look at warmoth -

http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Bodies/Vintage/SG.aspx

notice that they have the bridge further back to accomodate the 25 1/2" scale they build for as standard and the neck ends up further into the body too which helps with stability. They also build them as 1 3/4" thick as standard, but i guess thats more to do with their stocks of wood, as they do offer it thinner for $35

[Razbo]

I will just say that on my first build, I eventually chose to build a new neck for it, so I am glad it was bolt on.

[Tim37]

thats another good point if your not happy with the way it plays you can always swap out the neck or if your uncertian about building a neck from scratch theres tons more boltons availble to choose from.

[avengers63]

low end fuzz - your techniques and knowledge (based on questions you ask; i dont actually know what you know) i would tackle a bolt on;

B. Aaron - I agree with lowendfuzz for a first timer. A bolt-on (Fender-style) or bolt-in (PRS style) neck offers the advantage of a lot of tweakability once the instrument is finished.

Geo - Go bolt-on for a first instrument.

avengers63 - I agree that your first time out of the gate should be as easy as possible with the greatest margin of error. This means a traditional bolt-on would be best for you right now.

low end fuzz (again) - first time builds should be bolt ons.

Seeing a pattern here?

Nobody is saying that you can't make your first one a set neck and get it right. We're saying that it's better to cut your teeth on an easier project.

That being said, if you want it to be a set neck, I'm sure everyone here would be just as happy to help you get it right.

And if you go with a bolt on, make it a traditional one, not a back-bolt. The SG body is just too thin for a back-bolt.

[Prostheta]

You've become a right bolt evangelist recently John.

To be fair, it would be more of a pig to get right but a set is in keeping with the original Gibson design. That said, I hate the lack of support around the tenon and theres no reason it couldn't be converted to a deep set, a set through or completely through neck as Wez noted. The recent thread on the white Rickenbacker-inspired bass presented a fantastic alternative neck construction technique also!

A neck through offers the option of easily setting in the geometry of the bridge and neck by side profile but would involve a hella large chunk of Mahogany. I'm somewhat of a through neck evangelist myself now for that reason, plus I want to experiment more with body wing construction and the response of semi-hollow neck throughs.

SGs are great instruments, but a really archaic and fractu®ous neck design.

To the OP - what are the major points you are wanting to achieve? I seems the two options are to stay with the "authentic" design and perhaps take on a more complex but rewarding project, stay with the complexity and alter it to remove the original design weaknesses (think ESP Viper) or to alter the overall construction design to make it a more realisable and achievable project (bolt-on). I am sure that whatever you choose to do, this thread will be a good reference point for you to help take whichever steps are necessary. SGs aren't that common in PG projects.

[avengers63]

You've become a right bolt evangelist recently John.

So it seems.

I'm really loving the back-bolt design, even though a set is probably easier.

Honestly, I'd MUCH rather see a set or through neck on an SG. A bolt on just wouldn't look right. BUT... for the first one, a traditional bolt on really is the easiest and most logical way to go.

[westhemann]

A neck through offers the option of easily setting in the geometry of the bridge and neck by side profile but would involve a hella large chunk of Mahogany.

I have bought large flatsawn planks of mahogany and ripped and flipped them to make several 3 piece quartersawn neck blanks.

[Prostheta]

Yeah yeah, I know what you mean Wes....I meant in terms of the dimensions of the whole block whether it's one piece or several....

[low end fuzz]

for a first build, i be much more concerned with going thru the steps and learning from mistakes and at the same time having the easiest methods to fix them; than having the specs correct of a legendary master building factory;

bt i tottally agree again, with taking your time and doing everything perfect; no guts no glory; but whaen your in your 6th month and hit a snag that kybosh's the whole instrument; how fast r u gonna reset and try it again?

not sure who said it; but if you decide to go set/thru neck; post everything and anything your not 100% on and alot of people will help you every step of the way; myself included if you like

[MrValentine]

here was my idea

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsEwKh0

the red box is the tenon and the dots are bolts...would this be sturdy?

[avengers63]

here was my idea

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsEwKh0

the red box is the tenon and the dots are bolts...would this be sturdy?

Having established that a back bolt isn't feasible on an SG, I'll presume that this is a traditional bolt-on.

The ansawe is no. The neck pup will eat a large chunk from the tenon, thus weakening it to the point of a very fast breakage. Now you'll want to know why.

First look at a generic neck pocket, probably from a Strat copy.

Now look at the actual Strat.

The bolts are located between the 17th and 22nd frets. The actual placement isn't as important as the footprint. We're looking at the last 3" or so of neck under the fretboard. It's there because immediately 'below' that ares is the neck pickup, which is only marginally more shallow than the neck pocket. Sometimes it's deeper.

With your illustration, there's nowhere for the bolts to go. You'd have to create a neck pocket that would extend approximately 3" under the neck itself.

Unfortunately, this will create a large mass under the top of the neck and hampering the upper fret access that an SG is so famous for.

As mentioned before, this will be best done the way Warmoth does it: extending the pocket into the body slightly.

[MrValentine]

so warmoth just moves the neck pickup route back a little? what if the tenon in the pic was used for a set neck?

[avengers63]

Then you're back to the traditional ways an SG is made. Along with this comes a traditionally weak neck joint, for basically the same reasons described above. The best way I can think of to combat this is to have some more meat under the heel. This will give a larger base & sides for gluing areas. The drawback is a wide area at the top of the neck itself.

[MrValentine]

im cotemplating the bolt on purely because im used to playing guitars with large joitns such as the one in the pic you posted, and i think this would be the easiset for me to play.

[WezV]

so warmoth just moves the neck pickup route back a little?

No - they do a few things in order to make the body work as a bolt on - and also make it fit their standard 25 1/2" scale necks

you can see the main difference from john pics - the pocket is extended out from the body till it reaches the 16/17th frets. this gives a nice large fender style neck pocket, although obviously it has less support on the bass side than a strat or a tele.

the pocket is moved into the body slightly, but not too much... quite a bit more than a 61 SG, still more than the modern neck join but only by a fret or so.

SG's normally have a small plate at the end of the neck, the warmoth ones dont so the neck p-up can be in its normal place, the bridge and bridg pickup do need to be moved back slightly though

[MrValentine]

anybody have plans for the ibanez aanj?

[chops1983]

Its like throwing a chip into a flock of seagulls this thread, members chirping in everywhere

I will agree with a bolt on for a first, i did it and got my neck angle slightly shallow on my first, but with a bolt on it was an easy fix, shimmed up and it was all good. Technically bolt on should be called screwed on.

If you do decide on a set neck though, it is easy to check you have the right neck angle before you glue in your neck. Just insert the neck into the hopefully nice and snug pocket and lay your TOM bridge on the guitar top at the right location for your scale length, lay a straight edge along the top of your frets, passing over your bridge. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you would probably be looking for a 2-4mm gap between the straight edge and the slot of your saddles. But, you do need to work out how much adjustment your TOM posts allow and aim for roughly halfway(maybe abit less so you don't have the TOM flying way above your guitar top like i see so many production guitars have). That way you can adjust the bridge up and down to get the action you want.

But i will say this, make sure you put pencil to paper and draw you build out to scale with a front view and a side view so you can get measurements, angles off of it whilst your building. This will also help you understand how the neck will hit the body, at what angle and where etc. so you can understand what joint you would prefer.

As most of the members on this site have clearly pointed out, they will help you with almost any question they can answer and they are passing on their experiences with the advice they are giving.

Chad.

[Prostheta]

here was my idea

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsEwKh0

the red box is the tenon and the dots are bolts...would this be sturdy?

Only as sturdy as the neck pickup rout into it allows! Plus you would see the tenon on the top of the body between the pickups. No big deal for a solid colour though.

What people are getting at, is that an SG is awkward. Given the neck pickup placement, having a bolt-on means either moving the bridge position or the heel length to make it work or keep it solid. This isn't in keeping with the original. A neck-through means more wood, but the advantage of greater depth in the neck, obviating the issues with the neck pickup induced weakness. The original design will be as flawed as the original design - take it or leave it for what it is. Still a classic design with warts and all. I love the SG for that reason.

I personally also like the ESP Viper as a contemporary take on the SG; more Les Paul-y looking in weight and more modern with improvements. That said, it does not surpass the original or possess it's menacing gothic (no, gothic does not mean "black") looks - just offers an alternative derivation. You can see that by offsetting the top cutaway, they have added more meat to the sides of the neck mortice. A very good idea.

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/30U-15899.htm