Bolt On Vs Set

[MrValentine]

I cant decide whether to do a set neck SG or go with back bolt...which would be more stable?

[low end fuzz]

i beleive thats an opinion based question; so i'll chime in an opinion based answer;

your techniques and knowledge (based on questions you ask; i dont actually know what you know) i would tackle a bolt on; for the ability to be able to fix problems that come up alot easier than a one piece guitar;

one big mistake on a one piece usually sends the project to the back burners, or a long heartache of trial and error, not to mention havin gto deal with a full lenght guitar thru the entire build process.

my $.02

[MrValentine]

i think ill try back bolt...this is my first build after all

[killemall8]

Do not do a back bolt... no more benifit than a front bolt, and requires more measuring, and is just more complicated... If your set on a bolt on, go regular. But i personally would never make anything but a set neck. Easy, just as fast, and stronger. Not to mention looks, and feels better, and just makes the overall quality appearance better.

[low end fuzz]

and a 'front bolt' is what exactly?

it cant be what im picturing in my head

[killemall8]

A front bolt is a regular bolt on neck... i tougt he meant "back bolt" like hwta avengers has been testing...

[RestorationAD]

This could and probably should be construed as the rant of a lunatic....

<opinion>

Bolts.. they just add cost to the build. Bolts are for Frankensteins Monster. Bolts are for holding wheels on motorcycles...

Are you a luthier or an assembler?

No way they belong on an SG.

Set Neck please.

</opinion>

Ok had my fun.

Seriously Front and Back bolt? Seriously... titebond and a good neck pocket.

[St.wise-professor]

I agree with the set neck. I am about ready to start work on an SG I'm getting dimensions and making templates from my SG special. I have a bolt on LP special and I am working out how I'm going to turn it into a set neck. I think I'll route the heel and add wood to it for the tenon. I am taking measurements and tracings before all of that though.

For a few bucks you can get all of the templates you need for cutting and routing a set neck so it shouldn't be any harder than a bolt on.

Edited May 14, 2010 by St.wise-professor

[B. Aaron]

I agree with lowendfuzz for a first timer. A bolt-on (Fender-style) or bolt-in (PRS style) neck offers the advantage of a lot of tweakability once the instrument is finished. If you get the neck angle wrong with a set neck, it's wrong forever. If you get the neck angle wrong with a bolt-on, you can shim the neck or route the neck pocket differently. You can usually even shift the side-to-side alignment a few millimeters in either direction if that's wrong too, by putting shims into the sides of the neck pocket.

In short, you can go back and fix some of the mistakes people tend to make on their first instruments.

[Geo]

Go bolt-on for a first instrument.

I get it, some people love their set necks... Really, neither is superior. They are just different, and they SOUND different. In my opinion that would be the biggest determining factor--what kind of sound do I want?

Has anyone ever seen a bolt-on joint fail at the bolts? No? Then it really makes no difference if one is stronger than the other. For the purposes of the instrument's lifespan, they are equal because neither ever fails (unless you execute something wrong).

[avengers63]

Since y'all rattled my cage.....

I agree that your first time out of the gate should be as easy as possible with the greatest margin of error. This means a traditional bolt-on would be best for you right now.

I also agree that a bolt-on would look wrong on an SG. That doesn't mean you can't do one, just that it wouldn't LOOK right. I'm sure it'd play just fine.

And as the only one here that I'm aware of that has ANY working knowledge of back-bolts....

They DO need more work than a regular bolt-on. I wouldn't do it for the first one. It requires experience you simply don't have yet. (Not an insult)

They DO have advantages - neck-through heel smoothness and upper access with a simpler construction.

They require a thicker body than a traditional SG will allow for. They need at LEAST 1 3/4", preferably more. Less than that and you risk blowing through the pup routes.

I'd never put one on an SG not only because of the thickness but because the SG doesn't have the issue the back-bolt is meant to solve: upper fret access. The back-bolt is just like a neck-through in that it eliminates the neck pocket, thereby allowing much less material to be underneath the upper frets. The usual problem with upper fret access is where the neck meets the body: around the 17th fret for LP, Strat, & Tele. The SG meets the body at the 22nd fret, with nearly no heel in comparison. Therefore there's no issue with access and no need for the back-bolt.

[soapbarstrat]

Has anyone ever seen a bolt-on joint fail at the bolts? No?

Well, if you mean fail as in the neck flying off the body, no, but I've seen more stripped bolt-on screws than I care to count, sometimes with enough separation between neck heel bottom and body pocket to fit a credit card corner into the gap. Fairly easy fix in every case I personally know of.

And then I've seen the loose set-neck joints. Much bigger deal to repair, 'cause now you've got cracks showing right through the finish. It's actually SG's I've seen this the most on, coincidence, I guess.

I prefer bolt-on with machine screws (on electrics and acoustics). Don't think I'll ever be able to say if there's a sonic difference between bolt and set, 'cause I'll probably never get my hands on two guitars at the same time, where the only difference is the neck joint.

[avengers63]

Well, if you mean fail as in the neck flying off the body, no, but I've seen more stripped bolt-on screws than I care to count, sometimes with enough separation between neck heel bottom and body pocket to fit a credit card corner into the gap. Fairly easy fix in every case I personally know of.

Stew-Mac-s email this month was about fixing those stripped bolt-on holes. To my mind, the only way that'd happen is by repeatedly taking the bolts in & out, paired with over-tightening. If it's only done once or twice, there shouldn't ever be an issue with it.

[MrValentine]

so a set would be easier than back bolt?

[killemall8]

A set neck is really no more difficult AT ALL than a bolt on.. You rout a neck pocket, and glue it in... thats it. the only extra you have to do is to cut the tennon flush with the neck pickup cavity. Not hard at all.

[Tim37]

i think the reason most people are recomending a bolt is because you have two pieces to work with if ya mess up on one you toss it and start over. plus you get a slight bit of play with a bolt if the angle isnt quite right you can shim it at set up time. it just gives you a little more room for error on a first time build.

[avengers63]

A set neck is really no more difficult AT ALL than a bolt on.. You rout a neck pocket, and glue it in... that's it. the only extra you have to do is to cut the tenon flush with the neck pickup cavity. Not hard at all.

I think the reason most people are recommending a bolt is because you have two pieces to work with if ya mess up on one you toss it and start over. plus you get a slight bit of play with a bolt if the angle isn't quite right you can shim it at set up time. it just gives you a little more room for error on a first time build.

Agreed on both counts.

[low end fuzz]

2 points i agree on aswell;

sg's should have set necks;

first time builds should be bolt ons.

[soapbarstrat]

Stew-Mac-s email this month was about fixing those stripped bolt-on holes. To my mind, the only way that'd happen is by repeatedly taking the bolts in & out, paired with over-tightening.

I saw that email about 1/2 hour after making my post here, and when I saw that the neck in that email appears to be a mid to late 80's MIJ Fender, it really got me wondering if they drilled the holes a little too big on those, 'cause in my own experience those MIJ Fender strip out a little too easily. I also got confused when I saw right in the middle of that article, there was a plug for the StewMac notched straight-edge. Uh yeah, a notched straight-edge comes in real handy when dealing with stripped screws

[St.wise-professor]

If you take your time and triple check everything it won't be too hard making a set neck guitar. Wait til it is glued to drill for the bridge and tailpiece to make sure they're centered correctly and you'll be good to go.

[Mattia]

For an SG - make a set neck.

It's no more difficult, really.

[Prostheta]

+1 Mattia

I f you're going to go to the trouble of making all the other "difficult to achieve" bits on an SG then a set neck is relatively simple.

[MrValentine]

what are the other "difficult" parts on an sg?

[Southpa]

Bolt on like Epiphones are tilt adjustable (I've set up some pretty good action on those ) otherwise its just a matter of getting it right the first time. Other SG "issues" ? Make sure your body bevel lines remain sharp and concise with the outer edge.

[Mattia]

- Accurate body shaping/beveling

- Solid neck joint (careful about removing too much wood in the neck pickup area)

Other than that, it's just an electric guitar. Nothing crazy-specifically complex about it.