padbug Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 Day 1 I went to bed last night leaving this in my living room And I wake up to find some b*stard has snuck in during the night and stolen the guitar I was going to build! Never mind! Found it Using the new Dr. Toolbox method, you can also shed half a pound from your slab of wood. If you know what I mean. The plan is a LP-inspired double cut set neck. My next task is to route for the truss rod, which hopefully the father of my betrothed (a cooper, don't you know) can help with as I have never routed anything in my life before ever. It's the only aspect of the build that I'm apprehensive about, now that I've gotten over the first hurdle of actually putting blade to wood for the first time. Here's hoping he also has a nice bit of aged, Rusticator-esque wood for the top! (I cannot remember the name of the builder of that guitar, but it was beautiful and I wish to take inspiration from them.) I have a question though; what hand tools or economical power tools would be ideal for neatening up the body shape? Given it needs to be at right angles to the surface, I'm not over confident in my ability to do it with the few tools that I have. I got over confident during today's session and used the jigsaw to shave away at certain areas but I did not feel in complete control, and I'm not sure the blade sits vertically enough to do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 Easiest way to get square sides and to clean up the shape it to make a template. Get some 1/4" MDF, the stuff is real cheap and easy to work with. Rough cut your shape and then with files, rasps, sandpaper bring it in to the final shape. A great trick is to hold it up against the sky to look at the contour, flat spots or points stick out really well. Then double face tape in place and use a template bit to route the edge to the correct shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarnut Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 I have a question though; what hand tools or economical power tools would be ideal for neatening up the body shape? Given it needs to be at right angles to the surface, I'm not over confident in my ability to do it with the few tools that I have. I got over confident during today's session and used the jigsaw to shave away at certain areas but I did not feel in complete control, and I'm not sure the blade sits vertically enough to do the job. Looking good so far. If it were me doing this. I would back up a few steps and make a routing template and smooth out the body with a router and pattern bit. Since you don't have a template for routing, I would suggest a drum sander. This could be a dedicated sander or an arbor/sanding drum chucked up in a drill press. Check the table of the drill press to make sure it's 90 degrees to the arbor. Some arbors will flex so you should run a test piece to see if it's off. If there is significant flex in the setup, adjust the table to compensate for it. Peace, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padbug Posted July 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 (edited) Thanks Mark! EDIT: And Hocky2 How easy are drum sanders to come by? My disposable income is nil and the only places I can really think of locally that have the facilites I'd use (and for free) are colleges and the like, who I've approached before but for insurance reasons a technician would do it for me, which I'm reluctant to do as I want to do as much of the build myself as possible. Also, as unlikely as it is, if there is horrendous tearout I'd rather blame myself than some technician who likely couldn't give two big ones as to the success of the build. Edited July 13, 2010 by padbug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarnut Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 Thanks Mark! How easy are drum sanders to come by? My disposable income is nil and the only places I can really think of locally that have the facilites I'd use (and for free) are colleges and the like, who I've approached before but for insurance reasons a technician would do it for me, which I'm reluctant to do as I want to do as much of the build myself as possible. Also, as unlikely as it is, if there is horrendous tearout I'd rather blame myself than some technician who likely couldn't give two big ones as to the success of the build. They're fairly common and also called spindle sanders. You might try a local cabinet or furniture maker. Maybe another builder in your area from here on the forum. You could use a hand drill and sanding drum and take it down most of the way, then block it out by hand to square it up. But the accuracy would be less than other methods described above. Peace, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padbug Posted July 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 You might try a local cabinet or furniture maker. Maybe another builder in your area from here on the forum. A quick search has revealed a couple of prospective cabinet makers nearby, thanks for the tip! If they're not possible then I shall probably opt for the drill sanding bit, as it's certainly the cheaper option for me. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarnut Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 You might try a local cabinet or furniture maker. Maybe another builder in your area from here on the forum. A quick search has revealed a couple of prospective cabinet makers nearby, thanks for the tip! If they're not possible then I shall probably opt for the drill sanding bit, as it's certainly the cheaper option for me. Thanks again! Cool! You should have good luck with a local shop. Most guys are so interested in the guitar building process, they just want to be part of it. Peace, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padbug Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Made a lot more progress. Though it's been so long since the first post, I've only actually had 4 days to work on the build, and the work I've done has taken about 12 hours, which I'm pretty pleased about Body routed and planed to thickness: It's now sanded too. Not to a high grit but to touch it's as smooth as a baby's bottom. The face that was worked on is going to be the back of the guitar so I'm not worried about it being prerfectly flat. The MDF in the top left of the picture is the template for the body shape. Watershed moment! Started on the neck! Cut the blank in preperation for the scarf joint. Next step is to precisely sand the part down to glue them together in this shape: Also, a template is prepared to route the body cavaties. Hopefully work on this on Sunday, and route the truss rod channel if I can find a bit thin enough. Then it'll be all on hold until I can source a nice top, maybe an old table or reclaimed timber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdshirtman Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 I'm sure you already realize this but you have some serious sanding/planing to do to that scarf before you glue it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padbug Posted August 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 (edited) Of course o.o I would love to be able to afford a bandsaw, but I made do with a tenon. Given it's my first crack at any kind of luthiery/substantial woodword since high school I think it's actually in pretty good shape. Edited August 18, 2010 by padbug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarnut Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 Looking good. Glad to see you're sticking with it. It can be a challenge to build even with ample tools but doing it with the bare basics is an exercise in patience for certain. The neck blank looks good though it appears a bit thick. I would get it close to final thickness before dealing with the truss rod route. The reason being that every pass you make on the face of the headstock to thin it out, moves the nut line toward the body. Every pass you make on the face of the neck moves it toward the headstock. Everytime the nut line moves, the truss rod placement moves. This drawing isn't a realworld scenario but it illustrates the point. Hang in there and best of luck on the build. I'm looking forward to seeing this one completed. Peace, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padbug Posted August 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 Certainly food for thought! Thing is I'm not so au fait with planing that I can say I can get the neck surface flat enough cock-up free, and as I (more by luck than judgement) bought a pre-planed neck blank, I'm VERY keen to leave the surface of the neck well alone! So what I'd like to do is leave that surface well alone if I can, and carve the neck from the back. Doing it with hand tools is, I find, a very wasteful way of doing things. Had I a bandsaw I think I could have gotten the body and a top from the original slab of mahogany. As things stand now though I'm looking for a top - stylistically a good thing but not financially. But those are the breaks. I'm rather resigned to that fact though, so I've thought through a way of bringing the neck to thickness using a router and a jigsaw. I think the first drawing in the diagram - thinning the headstock - will be the biggest factor in the final positioning of the nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarnut Posted August 18, 2010 Report Share Posted August 18, 2010 Certainly food for thought! Thing is I'm not so au fait with planing that I can say I can get the neck surface flat enough cock-up free, and as I (more by luck than judgement) bought a pre-planed neck blank, I'm VERY keen to leave the surface of the neck well alone! So what I'd like to do is leave that surface well alone if I can, and carve the neck from the back. Doing it with hand tools is, I find, a very wasteful way of doing things. Had I a bandsaw I think I could have gotten the body and a top from the original slab of mahogany. As things stand now though I'm looking for a top - stylistically a good thing but not financially. But those are the breaks. I'm rather resigned to that fact though, so I've thought through a way of bringing the neck to thickness using a router and a jigsaw. I think the first drawing in the diagram - thinning the headstock - will be the biggest factor in the final positioning of the nut. Got it. That sounds like a solid plan to leave the planed surface as is. You won't have to do any more to the face of the headstock than level out the scarf joint. You can then take off the balance of the headstock thickness from the back...leaving both the nut line and top surface of the neck in tact. You could even carve in a stylish volute back there. Peace, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padbug Posted August 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 Haha, that's the plan! I have an idea in mind to make the guitar whale or Herman Melville-themed. We'll see how well that turns out(!) And as an aside, for my first scarf joint and first use of a tenon saw I am very satisfied. It's a pretty tidy cut after all and sets up the headstock to be 18 degrees from the neck (aimed for 17 degrees). Not too shabby Quick guestion gang; I am away for a week for tomorrow, and I wish to glue up the scarf joint (now fully sanded and prepared) so it can have all 168 hours to set and I can continue when I return. Routing around, I have found two different wood glues, and each promising slightly differing results and crossing over in a few places, and with the internet not being an especially definitive tool, I wonder if you guys could help a brother out. Which glue would you recommend (if either) for the glueing of a scarf joint in a guitar neck? I already owned these, but wanted to find titebond, as that's the brand most sources recommend or swear by, but it seems impossible to find either in the UK or at least within walking distance. Will either of these suffice? I'm 60% sure I could use either but I want to be 100%, and also use the right tool for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarnut Posted August 22, 2010 Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 Which glue would you recommend (if either) for the glueing of a scarf joint in a guitar neck? I'm not familiar with either but of the 2, I would be more inclined to use the EverBuild. The UniBond appears to be more of a filler than a glue. From the EverBuild website about 502: All Purpose Weatherproof Wood Adhesive is a high quality, resin based wood adhesive for all wood bonding. It can be used internally and externally and provides a high strength, impact resistant bond that is usually stronger than the wood itself. Ideal for all general woodworking and joinery uses, furniture assembly and household DIY use. Dries clear. Fast cure, initial set in just 10 minutes. Conforms to the international standard EN 204 (D3) and BS 4071 for creep resistance. Peace, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padbug Posted August 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2010 Do you think it's ideal or just the lesser of two evils? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Back to glue, I hate this. Both of your choices are unsuited for guitars. Weatherproof means water resistant which means can cause finishing problems. Please look for the one hundred threads which discuss the many proper glues for your guitar project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VesQ Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Back to glue, I hate this. Both of your choices are unsuited for guitars. Weatherproof means water resistant which means can cause finishing problems. Please look for the one hundred threads which discuss the many proper glues for your guitar project. Well , is there any glue out there that doesn´t cause finishing problems ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buter Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Lots of glue threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Weatherproof? Sounds like Titebond II and III to me.... :S Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padbug Posted August 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Back to glue, I hate this. Both of your choices are unsuited for guitars. Weatherproof means water resistant which means can cause finishing problems. Please look for the one hundred threads which discuss the many proper glues for your guitar project. Oh I'm sorry - did I seek help with an issue relevant to my build in my own thread? If you had even read my question, you would have seen that I was asking if either of the glues I already owned would be suitable, not beginning a new thread entitled "URNGH HI GUYS PLZ LIST GLUE MAKES 4 GITARS." As you might have gathered, I am a novice, not an idiot. As the other guys here have highlighted - and as I said - there are a lot of crossover qualities amongst the many thousands of different types of glue. As far as I was aware, a glue such as Titebond is a brand name, and not a recipe, so going into a hardware shop and asking for "Titebond, and ONLY Titebond!" is likely to get me absolutely nowhere. Please help if you can, but if my impudence is too much to bear, don't berate me for asking. /done. As it happens, I used neither. I did a dry run of the clamping set-up I thought through and it looked massively incapable, so I dared not risk it until I get home again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Foreigner Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 As you might have gathered, I am a novice, not an idiot. Well, you did somehow find yourself on the wrong side of the Penines and have yet to extricate yourself. If the boot fits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padbug Posted August 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) Hey, hey, hey now, I'm not from Holmfirth I don't think I am being unreasonable. I didn't mean to rant, but I don't come here to be made an example of. Spoke is quick to point to the bajillions of previous glue threads, and few are relevant. In fact, in Buter's search, of the first page only some 2 or 3 threads are actually seeking glue recommendations. In the 1st thread the asker asks, and receives a dozen piss-take replies before someone recommends Titebond. Brilliant. Spoke came across as arrogant and condescending. If that was unintentional then fine, let's draw a line under it and move on, but I'd suggest he take a few moments more next time before imposing his own forum standards on people asking for help. Edited August 23, 2010 by padbug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) hey padbug, when you go to the hardware store just ask for some PVA wood glue like Selley's Aquadhere interior or get Titebond on line, cheers Edited August 23, 2010 by Muzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buter Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Don't worry yerself, fella - that dude's usually a d!ck. I just saw you post this: Well , is there any glue out there that doesn´t cause finishing problems ? and threw up a search that should point you in the right direction. To be perfectly honest, I didn't have time to even look at a single one of those threads on that search as I was sitting in a cafe in Warsaw with the battery going down and lots to do, so no time for long posts this morning. My bad. I use Evo-Stick glue in the green bottle which you will be able to get in the UK and I've never had a problem. No attitude, just gratitude. Good luck with your build. Cheers Buter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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