jessejames Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Hey guys, I have a template that I bought, and I routed the neck pocket and then set the template neck in there, and it was pretty loose, so I got some scrap and routed a board to see how well it would fit with actual wood. Suffice to say, it doesn't fit. So I busted out the feeler gauges and there is .070 clearance side to side in there. How would you suggest I go about fixing this? I dont want to shim anything, and I haven't made the neck yet. I thought of getting my straight edge, getting it flush with the nut, then adding on the .070 at the base of the tenon. Or adding .035 to both sides so I keep the centerline correct. Anyone have a better way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessejames Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Here's a pic for reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 make a new neck template use the old one except on the heal make that part wider ofcoarse. good thing you caught it early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessejames Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Yeah, measure twice cut once ya know lol. I think I may just oversize it with my straight edge because I dont want to make a template, and I'd have to use my straight edge as a template to get the sides straight anyway, so I will try the feeler gauges and straight edge route first. See how well that does me. Your suggestion will probably be the best one and I'll have to learn the hard way as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 What Tim said. And for a better visual, you'll end up with something like this: Except obviously set in... not a neck thru. But the LOOK will be the same with how the neck material splays out from under the fingerboard at the body joint. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessejames Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I am gonna use Tims solution. Should be a dead on way to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buter Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Personally, I would use your body template to make a new body template but without a neck pocket. After you make your neck with the dimensions that you want, not dimensions that are dictated to you by the maker of the body template, use your actual neck to set up your router guides to rout the neck pocket. For my money, that would be the easiest and best way to get a snug fit. Just a thought. Cheers Buter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helldunkel Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Here's a pic for reference. Here comes the ultimate cheap solution as seen in cheap guitar factories! Shim it all up then spray a really nice solid finish all over the guitar to make it all invisible..... Chances are if you spray 3'000'000 coats, you wont need to shim it up, the lacquer will do the job JK of course **** happens man, the best is to use it as a template and build another body. The problem is that if you repair it, one day the instrument is sold and a customer takes a look at the hidden problem, it may bring bad reputation to your side even if the neck joint is perfect after shimming... So forget and start all over gain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I disagree with the above advice and offer you another view point... Its doubtful to me that you're building that guitar for a "customer" or that you'll sell it with your name on the headstock... TBH, that mishap would require one of two repairs in my eyes... you can either "laminate" a very thin ( .070 ) strip of wood onto your neck heel or lam a small piece into the neck pocket. The pickup ring will all but cover that small nick. Just my opinion, but I'd just repair and continue........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Sorry, I misread Tim. I thought he was saying make a template where JUST the heel part is wider, and then the rest of the neck is back to normal. Hence my picture reference. That said, I would not go Tim's route. That route you're changing the width of the neck?! And by .070". You should probably check if your bridge will even accommodate that! Secondly, if it's an even .070" gap around the neck, changing the template width at just one end won't fix things. You'll either have to change the width by .070" at both ends of the neck, or change it to be .070" at the exact point it touches the body (so even wider at the end of the fretboard). But yeah, this HUGELY changes how the guitar will feel, play, and whether your bridge will even work with the guitar. Just for reference, adding .070" to a 1.75" nut neck (PRS if I remember correctly) is halfway to making that a 7-string neck... (1 7/8" nut). So, there's a little more to this than just "change the with." Other suggestion: why not make it a 7-string? (unless you've already routed or drilled for bridge location stuff). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessejames Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'm not gonna add' to the nut width, just adding to the heel. All I have to do I believe is add the gap width to the over all width of the base of the tenon. Then measure for the middle, split the difference (adding .035 to each side) and draw lines down to 1 11/16" thereby not changing the nut width at all, and I will just get a 2 3/16" bridge instead of a 2 1/16" bridge. Should be enough to compensate for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Actually, with it in fact BEING a 1 11/16" (missed that, sorry), I might actually suggest making the nut wider as well (to 1.75" ala Gibson and some PRS). It will make for a less awkward feeling taper IMO. But to each their own. Good to see you've done a little research on whether it's possible with a different bridge though. That said, you're lucky this happened before drilling for the bridge, or routing in the case that it's a trem unit. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessejames Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I did rout for the trem already, but it's nothing than can't be slightely widened. I haven't drilled the 6 holes to mount the trem yet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessejames Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Well, during my lunch break I busted out the good ole digital calipers (i love these things) and anyway. On my template I got a measurement of 2.1145 at the very base of it. adding .072 I got 2.1865 or 2.187, which converted out to be 2 3/16". So the next step will be drawing a base of 2 3/16", then going to 1 11/16", or 1 3/4" via Verho's suggestion (which he is an awesome builder, so it tends to take advice from you guys that have been here before. Then just take my straight edge and make my lines meet and voila! New template like Tim suggested. Also looks like the 2 3/16" bridge is gonna work out perfect as that is my end tenon width, not what the fretboard will start at, so it should leave me with it being just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 My suggestion has little to do with abilities and "proper" fixing of the issue. But thanks for the complement anyways All my suggestion is saying that if you widen towards the heel, and not do so towards the nut, then you're going to have the strings splay more than guitars you're probably used to. Which is merely an issue of comfort playing. That said, 1/16" isn't a HUGE amount, you just need to decide if it will bug you. That said, I personally like 1.75" nuts ANYWAYS so I'm sorta biased towards that Perhaps the answer is to go to the guitar-center with a ruler and play something with a 1 3/4" nut and relatively wide bridge, and then try and find a 1 11/16" nut with a wide bridge and see if one feels better or worse. Chris Edit: I did a little more lookin' at some numbers, and I think I can kinda give you a better visual. Gibson-esque stuff is 2 1/16" spread at the bridge, coming from a 1 3/4" nut (full nut, not spread), then let's say drop 1/8" from either side to account for string-to-edge distance, so there's a 9/16" width increase down the neck. On a floyd rose you have something like 2 1/8" bridge spread to a 1 5/8" nut... leaving a .75" width increase down the neck. Meanwhile, you're looking at going from 1 11/16" nut to a 2 3/16" bridge spread, a width increase of .75" matching that of a floyd style guitar. So you're looking at a "splay" similar to a floyd style guitar... but slightly MORE drastic than that since you also have a shorter scale (PRS 25" vs. Ibanez-esque 25.5). But yeah, that'll give you a better idea of what the string splay will be like... closer to (but a bit more spread out) than a floyd guitar. If you changed you nut to 1 3/4" it'll put that splay (spread differential?) somewhere between floyd and Gibson style. Hopefully that makes sense. But as before, simply matter of preference, no "right" or "wrong." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I would add a piece of wood on either side of the neck join using the same species of wood and glue it firmly. Fix the template and re-route. The repair should be invisible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Sorry, I misread Tim. I thought he was saying make a template where JUST the heel part is wider thats exactly what i ment, i was was trying to figure out a way to fix the problem save the body and not use shims. i guess my solution was to just make the shim part of the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessejames Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) I got it resolved. Did a test run with a scrap piece of wood. I just got it, spaced out 2 3/16 on one end, spaced out 2 3/16 on the other end, drew my straight lines. Then found my center line at 1 3/32" and drew that, then went 7/8" from my center line to get my 1 3/4" and just connected the lines. It was a very VERY snug fit and I didn't have to add a shim or fill in the neck pocket with anything. It's just for me, but I don't like to shim necks anyway. Edited January 6, 2011 by jessejames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 jessejames... glad you have this worked out. I hadn't had a chance to read this thread until now, but your solution is good IMHO. Especially since it worked! I didn't catch what bridge you were going to use, however with the heel being at 2-3/16" wide your back into the realm of "normal". It's actually a shame that a vendor would supply a template like that to an unsuspecting customer. I've had many customers over the years send me templates (thinking it would help) that were complete garbage. What pains me, it that they actually paid money for them! You were fortunate to have noticed the discrepancies prior to making the neck! -Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessejames Posted January 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 IN the end I just got lazy and straight built the neck without a template. I should have templated it out, but eh, I'm sick and just not feeling up to the extra work, plus my shop is an absolute disaster right now. Sorry Verho, we went from 1 11/16" nut to 1 3/4" to a final of 1 9/16". Explanation here. http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=44549&pid=481899&st=0&#entry481899 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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