RestorationAD Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 S906 #5 Flame Maple/Ebony neck attached to a super thin Undecided body with hipshot parts and custom pickups. Aiming for prog all world fast shreader 6 strings light enough to enjoy. Neck :Flame Maple/Ebony Fretboard : ???? Scale : 25.5 Frets : 24 Trussrod : ALLPARTS Body : ???? (33mm) Tuners : Hipshot Pickups : Diablo Bridge : Hipshot Electronics : 1 Push/pull Neck blank and the possible top glued together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Preparing the neck blank. Square one side on the jointer so I can run it through the drum sander. Of course the jointer loves to tear and chip flamed wood so I use very minimal cuts and stop as soon as it is flat enough. Then I run it through the drum sander. The blank really needs to be square and true. If not the jigs do not work right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Allright lets cover a standard scarf joint on this build. I like the neck scarf when I need to conserve wood. Thinking about it lets cover mid neck scarf joints and headstock angle in one conversation. I am still not sure what the perfect headstock angle is. I started out with classic Gibson 14 degree headstock angles. No real reasoning behind them just did it because that is what Gibson does. When I first started the Ibanez Wizard was the greatest neck I had ever played. Yes I grew up and realized that the thin Gibson with the 1 11/16" nut is the greatest neck ever. My absolute favorite neck is a 93 RG470 Wizard. It is 1 11/16" nut, 17mm at the third fret, and funny enough a 14 degree headstock. So when I was working on the S9 I decided I would fix the little things I did not like on my 93 RG470 neck. I ended up with a 1 3/4" nut (George Lynch Style) and 20mm ( or 21 or 22 depending) profile from the 1st to at least the 15th fret. Later on I started experimenting with shallower angles. I moved to 12 degrees then to 10 degree but honestly on non-tremolo guitars I didn't see enough difference. Carvin uses 8 degrees. PRS uses 10 or 12 degrees. I have just settled on the 14 degree headstock angle. The idea with headstock angle is break angle downforce verse binding tension. So if you have too much angle you create a bind point at the nut. The downforce of the string and the friction of the nut have to co-exist. You would like the string to be able to move forward and backwards in the nut easily without binding. If you have too much break angle the string will bite into the nut and cause some tuning issues (that little catch were all the sudden the string jumps past in tune to flat). As the break angle becomes more shallow you get less friction against the nut. This is a benefit with a non-locking tremolo and regular bone nut as you are able to return to zero easily (with a little graphite in the slot). However as you lessen the break angle you run the risk of vibration and rattle from the string floating in the slot. Wood conservation is another issue. It is pretty easy to find 24" x 1 3/4" pieces of exotic woods. But it is not as easy to find 30" or 36" x 1 1/2" pieces of exotic woods. I can build a mid scarf neck out of a 24" L x 1 3/4" D x 2 3/4" W neck blank. When you decrease the angle of the headstock/scarf it lengthens the blank. With a 14 degree headstock angle I am able to get a mid scarf neck out of a relatively small blank. Why do I still use 14 degrees? I have used 10 - 12 - 14 and I settled on 14 because that is what Gibson used (go ahead and say voodoo) and I build mostly fixed bridges these days. It saves me wood in certain situations and is easy to do with a radial arm saw of a chop saw. Time to mark the blank. It is a little thinner than I wanted (1.6 vs 1.75) but it will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I use the template to mark the start of the neck thickness, 24th fret, the heal, and the cut-off at the end. The start of the fretboard and the nut position do not actually fit on the blank (they end up in the headstock piece). I get the headstock from the bottom of the blank before the heal. I like the headstock piece to be between 1" - 1.25" thick. This puts the scarf under the 3rd fret were it belongs. When the scarf is in the right place the fretboard helps to reinforce the joint. When the scarf creeps into the headstock/volute area it is just a joint (no reinforcement). Once laid out we go to the Radial arm saw and cut the scarf while the blank is still square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Here is the Scarf Jig. Pretty simple actually. 8/4 piece of poplar cut at 14 degrees off 90 degrees. With a face plate glued to it that gives my a place to clamp. One important part is that it is completely square to the table. The scarf will be crooked if it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 The jig is clamped to the table and the neck blank is clamped to the jig. This keeps the fingers away from the monster and helps protect against kick back. I go very slow and carefully guide the saw through the cut. It has a tendency to grab and pull itself into the blank... bad things. Oh don't loose the little cut-off as we will use that later when we are clamping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Now to free our headstock from the blank. Setup the bandsaw fence to rip a 1" (actually .95") piece from the back of the blank. I stop at the heal section. After freeing the headstock section I run it through the drum sander to true it up. Now the reason we made sure everything was square becomes more apparent. Since everything is square lining up the stripes is easy. Lay the blank on a flat surface and check it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Remember our little cut off? well we will use that to create a flat clamping surface. Once the neck is aligned use a quick clamp to hold the joint and drill some locater/holding pins. These pins should be at the very edges of the blank so they are not in the neck at any point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Cover both surfaces with glue and position the neck on the flat surface. Use a quick clamp to hold it temporarily while you locate your pins and drive them in. Break out a bigger clamp and position it right in the front of the fretboard side of the scarf making sure it is centered in the blank. This will put the most pressure in the part of the actual scarf that will survive the neck build. Then reposition your other clamps to fit. Finished for the day as I am out of clamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGGOTBRAIN Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Nice stuff as usual... Thank you for taking the time to share the details. Huge help to this noob Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpcrash Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 This is AWESOME! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Nice stuff as usual... Thank you for taking the time to share the details. Huge help to this noob Jack This is AWESOME! Thanks! You are welcome. I would like to add before I am flamed "Gibson uses a 17 degree headstock". I know it uses 17 degrees on a lot (most now) of its models. My favorite model is a 1971 Medallion Gibson Flying V which to the best of my knowledge a 14 degree headstock and a volute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workingman Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Many thanks for the clear photos and explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 So to continue on with the scarf tutorial. We are left with a large block sticking up from the face of our blank. Start with the template and draw the line for the face of neck. Use the bandsaw and cut along the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 The next part is tricky and has a risk of blow out. Using the jointer to plane down to the surface of the neck has all kinds of issues. With figured wood it is easy to tear out large chunks (made several pieces of laminated firewood this way). I still do it because I am impatient. The main thing I can say is practice on scraps. Holding the neck parallel to the table plane down until you are almost flush with the face. Do not plane to the surface of the face. It will tear out. The reason you hold it parallel and don't let the end touch is because you would then create an angle and be forced to plane the whole face of the neck to regain a true face... this in turn would change the angle on the heal which would have to also be corrected. Be careful and pay attention. Now to finish up take the neck to a really flat surface with sandpaper attached and true up the last mm by hand. Try not to rock as you do this. I usually try and turn the neck a few times while I am doing this. That way I correct any skew I create. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Looks good. Now to fix up the heal. I use 1" heal so cut it on the bandsaw and run it through the drum sander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 I was curious about the joint after I saw a small glue line. I cut in a bit with the belt sander and it is all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Trimming up the back of the headstock. Using the fence on the bandsaw allows for less mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 I think I might use this top for this one... not sure yet I have some other stuff coming. I don't like the spalt pattern in this one so I am thinking about using the burl side. I won't actually decide for a few weeks. About 2 minutes after this photo I checked the blank with my template. I missed by an inch (idiot moment)... I had to break it apart and reposition the halves. I had no idea how tough it is to get titebond apart after only a few minutes. I had to put my knee into the middle to get ti to let go. So I applied more glue and repositioned the halves. Well after a few hours I came out to check on it...It has a horrible glue line on top. Looks like I will be cutting it apart next weekend and starting over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Apparently I did a poor job of explaining this... I have read it a few times and it is not clear.... so I made a picture. It is actually really just common sense.... The next part is tricky and has a risk of blow out. Using the jointer to plane down to the surface of the neck has all kinds of issues. With figured wood it is easy to tear out large chunks (made several pieces of laminated firewood this way). I still do it because I am impatient. The main thing I can say is practice on scraps. Holding the neck parallel to the table plane down until you are almost flush with the face. Do not plane to the surface of the face. It will tear out. The reason you hold it parallel and don't let the end touch is because you would then create an angle and be forced to plane the whole face of the neck to regain a true face... this in turn would change the angle on the heal which would have to also be corrected. Be careful and pay attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Somehow I missed the last part of this post earlier today. I must have been to busy messin' with you in your other threads. You didn't say what these body woods are (I checked). I like the way you have that top laid out even if it doesn't end up on this one. I had no idea how tough it is to get titebond apart after only a few minutes. I had to put my knee into the middle to get ti to let go. That is really interesting. I wonder if there is a report somewhere that explores the strength of the bond at various lengths of time after glue up...but prior to cure. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Somehow I missed the last part of this post earlier today. I must have been to busy messin' with you in your other threads. You didn't say what these body woods are (I checked). I like the way you have that top laid out even if it doesn't end up on this one. Well... I haven't decided. I landed a ton of eBay wood this week. I have some Sipo, Khaya, and more Limba on the way. I am interested in the Sipo. I still have a pile of Sapele and Black Limba (I am saving that for a Double cut LP Jr). I am also becoming a fan of Walnut... I am pretty sure this is getting ab Ebony fretboard. The neck is flame maple and ebony. I was thinking white limba body ... but the top is really orange so I am not sure there will be enough contrast so it might end up being sipo. I have 3 different types of tops coming as well including flamed Myrtle, Maple Burl, and a Serious Quilt/Burl top. Plus some of the stuff I have stashed... I had no idea how tough it is to get titebond apart after only a few minutes. I had to put my knee into the middle to get ti to let go. That is really interesting. I wonder if there is a report somewhere that explores the strength of the bond at various lengths of time after glue up...but prior to cure. SR I doubt it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterblastor Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Apparently I did a poor job of explaining this... I have read it a few times and it is not clear.... so I made a picture. It is actually really just common sense.... Made perfect sense RAD! Thanks for posting. It makes it so much simpler to get the joint level when you're only dealing with one face of the joint at a time instead of two pieces of wood stacked on top of each other. I tried it last night. Freaking brilliant time saver even with a hand plane instead of a jointer. Thanks again man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Apparently I did a poor job of explaining this... I have read it a few times and it is not clear.... so I made a picture. It is actually really just common sense.... Made perfect sense RAD! Thanks for posting. It makes it so much simpler to get the joint level when you're only dealing with one face of the joint at a time instead of two pieces of wood stacked on top of each other. I tried it last night. Freaking brilliant time saver even with a hand plane instead of a jointer. Thanks again man! Your welcome. Anything I can do outside of teaching Chris how to build pickups! I hate this method and was hesitant to suggest it. I didn't think about it when I posted it but I would definitely do it this way if I was using a Ryoba (double bladed pull saw) and a Jack Plane... For the record in about a month I am buying this edge sander. Then I won't be doing crazy jointer tricks anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Ok after the joint test fail I decided to get a new set of body blank clamps. The 20 year old ponies were great but the 2 cheap clamps were useless. Oh the joint test... I grabbed one side of the blank and wacked it against the floor of the garage, twice. Sounded really good the first swing, nice ring, sustain, overall good tone. The second swing it snapped right on the joint. That is the example of a bad joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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