Juntunen Guitars Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 How does Epoxy hold up to over time and through heat and cold compared to titebond though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Wrong question. "How will the wood stand up to heat and cold compared to the epoxy?" If a guitar had a skeleton, archaeologists a million years from now would be puzzling over these strange flat resinous things after prying a cold dead guitarist's skeletal fingers from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted November 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 How does Epoxy hold up to over time and through heat and cold compared to titebond though? See Below. The answer below only applies to quality epoxies. A quality epoxy has to be heated to a point where most glues will fail to cause it to let go. I know that Titebond and Hide glue will fail at the same temperatures (sometimes lower) it takes to separate an epoxy joint. In my experience Titebond and hide glue respond better to steam than epoxy. Hide glue is the best for things you would like to take apart one day. *If I glue something with Titebond or epoxy I do not plan on disassembling it. Wrong question. "How will the wood stand up to heat and cold compared to the epoxy?" If a guitar had a skeleton, archaeologists a million years from now would be puzzling over these strange flat resinous things after prying a cold dead guitarist's skeletal fingers from it. I must reiterate. I use Titebond for almost everything except oily woods and fretboards. I used to use titebond for my fretboards but I like the longer open time available to me with the T-88 and the fact that I am not introducing any water to the neck at a point when I need everything to remain stable. Same holds true for unstable headplates and veneers. Ziricote/Bocote/Cocobolo headplates like to curl up when you hit them with Titebond. This ends up requiring a caul or plate to hold them flat while they cure. With epoxy the plates remain flat and I do not have to construct a silly caul/plate to hold them flat. Again there are times when not introducing water produces more consistent results with less work. On oily woods like very oily pieces of cocobolo/bocote a quality epoxy is the only way to go. I have done tests and the oils stop the titebond from penetrating the wood and the resulting joint is a surface bond. Titebond relies on seeping into both pieces of material for a good bond. Therefore the closer the joint the better the bond. Epoxy on the other hand soaks into the oily woods without any issues (because it is not water based) and provides a much better bond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted November 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 How to tell if a piece of wood is too oily for titebond. Couple of drops of water sometimes is all I need. If it doesn't soak in in a short amount of time it is probably a candidate for epoxy. Another way to tell is to wipe the piece with acetone. Let it dry. In my experience most properly dried exotics will turn ashy (white) after a good wiping with acetone. Usually these are safe to bond with Titebond. If after a few swipes of acetone you can see the wood get darker it is too oily... I have actually had pieces where more oil came to the surface. After wiping with acetone a clean rag should not have oils on it after wiping the piece of wood. If it fails the water drops after bail. In my experience most properly dried ebony and other exotics are fine with Titebond but every once in a while you get a piece that is just oily and there is nothing to do about it but use epoxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Very finely put. Padauk is an odd wood in that it has always bonded very well with Titebond for me, however hitting it with Acetone soon puts you in OilHell. First time I used Padauk I ended up smushing orange oils all over my nice bleached white Maple turning it a kind of pink that only ever looks nice on sunsets and never on guitars. Perhaps Padauk would pass your water test. One I never thought of using before, but makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Very finely put. Padauk is an odd wood in that it has always bonded very well with Titebond for me, however hitting it with Acetone soon puts you in OilHell. First time I used Padauk I ended up smushing orange oils all over my nice bleached white Maple turning it a kind of pink that only ever looks nice on sunsets and never on guitars. Perhaps Padauk would pass your water test. One I never thought of using before, but makes perfect sense. Padauk is its own beast... It is a giant rosewood tree. You can make an orange stain from a piece of wood soaked in alcohol. It is full of pigment but I would not call it an oily wood. I always use Titebond on Padauk with amazing seamless/invisible glue line results. Padauk usually passes the water test. I hate learning lessons like "Do not wipe Padauk next to any other wood with acetone." Of course there are several exceptions to the rules and you have to trust your instincts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Padauk is its own beast... It is a giant rosewood tree. You can make an orange stain from a piece of wood soaked in alcohol. It is full of pigment but I would not call it an oily wood. I always use Titebond on Padauk with amazing seamless/invisible glue line results. Padauk usually passes the water test. I hate learning lessons like "Do not wipe Padauk next to any other wood with acetone." Of course there are several exceptions to the rules and you have to trust your instincts. Padauk is definately a great wood, not a rosewood though, it is more commonly called a mahogany, from what I have seen, read and heard at least, correct me if I'm wrong. Good to know about the oils in it, I am going to use it on an acoustic next spring. Edit: "Padauks can be confused with rosewoods to which they are somewhat related, but as a general rule padauks are coarser and less decorative in figure." - Wikipedia I guess they are somewhat related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Padauk is definitely a great wood, not a rosewood though, it is more commonly called a mahogany, Sorry I wasn't specific enough... I was using "Rosewood" as a guitar related generality as to its qualities. Science aside Padauk is not like mahogany except that it is a generic term for several different types of wood and maybe in its coarse grain. My problem so far with the padauk I have been getting is it is very hard... therefore it tears out, splinters, cracks easily. It also has continually produced very bright guitars (doesn't help it looks awesome with flamed maple). The dust gets on everything even with the dust collector... I am going to win with Padauk at some point I will find the perfect combo to produce an incredibly great guitar (not that the RedWitch isn't). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Summary: Paduk is a unique tonewood combining characteristics of several other tonewoods, it's a royal pain in the a$$ to work with sometimes, and it's a crying shame that the almost glowing orange darkens into a rusty brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Summary: Paduk is a unique tonewood combining characteristics of several other tonewoods, it's a royal pain in the a$$ to work with sometimes, and it's a crying shame that the almost glowing orange darkens into a rusty brown. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Good to know. I am building a dreadnaught mostly to Martin specs in luthier school in January with Padauk back, sides and possibly neck too. I asked my instructors about it and they said they have never had a problem bending or routing padauk, they said it was one of the easier woods to work with but they said you have to know how to work with it. They said to take no more than 1/32"-2/32" passes a time with a router and don't hog off to much depth either and for bending it like any other woods they said, just take your sweet time and it will turn out perfectly and will barely ever crack. I wouldn't know though I have never used it for guitars, I have only used it in bent shaft canoe paddles and it worked fine for me ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Those musta been some NICE paddles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Those musta been some NICE paddles. They were I did not and will not sell them haha. I only used one strip on padauk down the center, they are about 8 or 9 laminates. I did spruce and then the center was walnut/padauk/walnut only to add strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Time to set this neck. I need some of my favorite tools. Calculator, Calipers, Mechanical Pencil, Ruler. Work off the centerline. Measure width of the neck at the 24th fret and at the 17th fret. Measure the distance between the frets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Use the calculator to half the measurements and mark them from the center line. Use this to line up the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Set the template on the edges of the pencil marks. We only mark the neck at this point. Once the neck is set we can make sure the pickups and bridge are in the right place based on the neck. This helps in case the neck is off a hair (I am only human). After the template is set use a forstner bit to clear out material then route away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Use a chisel and hammer to square up the neck pocket corners. Then test fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Fits well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Excessive photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Time for the headplate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Headplate on... now where is my headstock template? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Ok found my headstock template finally. Trimmed up headstock using rasps, sanding blocks and a scraper. It is hard to use power tools on these headstocks, especially with the exotic headplate that loves to chip out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Enough for today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm remembering all the grief I caught for building such a dark guitar. Yours reminds me of an ice cream sandwich when you can see some of the sides. It's going to be spectacular! Have you made hardware choices (chrome, black, cream)? I can't remember if you said on the first page and it was so long ago. Nice inclusion of the CNC in the shots too. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm remembering all the grief I caught for building such a dark guitar. Yours reminds me of an ice cream sandwich when you can see some of the sides. It's going to be spectacular! Have you made hardware choices (chrome, black, cream)? I can't remember if you said on the first page and it was so long ago. Nice inclusion of the CNC in the shots too. SR Well you deserved that grief... and we were all wrong. I wanted something controversial. This is my new demo guitar as I sold all my other examples and have nothing but the RedWitch to let people play. Everything is Black. Even to the point of knocking the gloss off the HBs so they are flat black as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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