Third Build - Black And White

[henrim]

Now that I got an other black one to play I finally gave this one a long overdue shave. So much better now. Of course I now have to dismantle it to refinish the neck. I need to make a new nut too, and there’s also some things to fix in the cavities. I’m trying not to refinish the body though. I mean I like it but it so vulnerable to scratches that I would like to give it a tougher finish. But not now. No.

[henrim]

I have used card scrapers and what ever pieces of scrap metal to find the high spots on my frets. A fret rocker from a luthier tool shop would probably cost a couple of euros but I just never seem to remember to put one in cart when I make an order.

So I made one. 5mm stainless steel should last a while.

[Prostheta]

I think that fret rockers are one of the most misused/misunderstood tools in a luthier's arsenal. I think they are really only of use to anybody who is completely fretting a new board rather than levelling. I use mine to tap the frets to listen for the dull thunk of a poorly-seated fret.

[mistermikev]

3 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

I think that fret rockers are one of the most misused/misunderstood tools in a luthier's arsenal. I think they are really only of use to anybody who is completely fretting a new board rather than levelling. I use mine to tap the frets to listen for the dull thunk of a poorly-seated fret.

on the one hand... I'm with ya... if you use a marker to level your board it should be level... on the other hand if you have wet noodle wood that doesn't hold a nice arc once tension is on it... i guess they could be useful in identifying where the problem is... for me: never use the one I have.  

[Prostheta]

They're useful, however I think they're only good at identifying errors that need spot correction such as super low or high/loose frets. Levelling a board with a springy loose fret creates bigger issues. That's just me anyway. I think any tool is good if you have a specific need of it for a defined use. Once a neck is in service, fret rockers become less useful as most neck rarely go back to absolute dead straight once the rod is relaxed and they're no longer under tension.

[henrim]

I use it after leveling and re-crowning. Because after crowning the frets are not necessarily perfectly even. The amount maybe negligible for some but I find this tool helpful to find the spots that need some attention. 

[mistermikev]

47 minutes ago, henrim said:

I use it after leveling and re-crowning. Because after crowning the frets are not necessarily perfectly even. The amount maybe negligible for some but I find this tool helpful to find the spots that need some attention. 

whatever works for you is all that matters.  i do an initial crown pass with a stew mac 150 grit, bring everything up to 400 w erasers and crown again with 300 grit, then shine everything up to 2000, then come back with an 800 grit leveling beam and markers... for me this leaves a razor thin line on all frets.  after doing that I've never bothered using a rocker... and ultimately the strings will tell you if you've got a problem after everything is under tension but haven't had that issue myself.  

lotta dif ways to get to the church.

[ADFinlayson]

7 hours ago, henrim said:

I use it after leveling and re-crowning. Because after crowning the frets are not necessarily perfectly even. The amount maybe negligible for some but I find this tool helpful to find the spots that need some attention. 

I do similar now too, once I've got my frets levelled, crowned and all the worst marks out of the frets, I come back with a rocker and use the stewmac fretrocker file thingy to touch up any that turn out a tad high. I really like that tool, totally worth the expense. 

[henrim]

We had this discussion not long ago in some thread about nut filing and someone, maybe @Prostheta mentioned using piece of guitar strings as file to do the bottom of the nut slot. Can’t remember where that discussion was and if there was any specifics about the process. So I was thinking about whether to glue a length of string to a piece of wood or braze it to a piece metal. That’s when the obvious struck.

[nakedzen]

19 hours ago, henrim said:

We had this discussion not long ago in some thread about nut filing and someone, maybe @Prostheta mentioned using piece of guitar strings as file to do the bottom of the nut slot. Can’t remember where that discussion was and if there was any specifics about the process. So I was thinking about whether to glue a length of string to a piece of wood or braze it to a piece metal. That’s when the obvious struck.

I can see one possible problem with that. The slot could become larger than the string you have on the saw, like this, since I doubt anyone has laser precision with a hand saw. Maybe if you do one pass and no more.

 

[henrim]

11 minutes ago, nakedzen said:

I can see one possible problem with that. The slot could become larger than the string you have on the saw, like this, since I doubt anyone has laser precision with a hand saw. Maybe if you do one pass and no more.

Yes, but the string so dull that it really is a bad file. You need to cut the slot with something else and just smoothen the cut with the string. For that I think wound strings can work. The higher unwound strings may not work at all. 

[henrim]

Actually the body of the saw flexes too much with a thick string. Or I have too spongy strings. Tension is good. May not be as good idea after all. 

[Prostheta]

I don't use strings to create fret slots, however with a minimum size set of slotting files, the larger sizes can be opened out with strings. I like the fret saw solution! Yes, unwound don't work.

[henrim]

Updates:

- So far the 9V battery has been loose in the pickup cavity (with some padding). Now I made aluminium cradle with a velcro strap.
- Finally installing magnets to hold the cavity lid in place. So far it has been held in place with friction. Which has done a lousy job, lid falling down every now and then. 

Also:
- The the neck profile is now done. It's a bit thinner and sort of flat U shape now. Which I like. If you don't, you may as well call it flatus. 

- Fretboard was level(ish) and playable, so I just tried to take care of any minor issues. There is still some seating issues, due to the fret slot ends being too shallow on few frets. but to fix them I'd have to re-fret those frets. More a cosmetic thing which I'm going to live with for now. 

- Pot knobs were left high quite high after I changed the pups and pots to ones that were not part of the original design. Now took the knobs down as much as I could. Still not quite how I'd like them to be. But to fix that I'd need to change the pots to low profile ones.

- Originally this guitar was going to have a different bridge. When I restarted the build I changed to a Schaller Hannes which had to be shimmed for proper height. I made a 3mm thick shim which was too much so the saddles had to be in the lowest position. Now I tried without the shim, and finally settled to a 1,5mm shim, which gives a good height adjustment range to both directions.

- The body has some scratches and dings of bad handling because the oil finish is not very durable and swamp ash is not very hard wood. I'd like to fix that but I'll leave it for some other time.

[mistermikev]

7 hours ago, henrim said:

Updates:

- So far the 9V battery has been loose in the pickup cavity (with some padding). Now I made aluminium cradle with a velcro strap.
- Finally installing magnets to hold the cavity lid in place. So far it has been held in place with friction. Which has done a lousy job, lid falling down every now and then. 

Also:
- The the neck profile is now done. It's a bit thinner and sort of flat U shape now. Which I like. If you don't, you may as well call it flatus. 

- Fretboard was level(ish) and playable, so I just tried to take care of any minor issues. There is still some seating issues, due to the fret slot ends being too shallow on few frets. but to fix them I'd have to re-fret those frets. More a cosmetic thing which I'm going to live with for now. 

- Pot knobs were left high quite high after I changed the pups and pots to ones that were not part of the original design. Now took the knobs down as much as I could. Still not quite how I'd like them to be. But to fix that I'd need to change the pots to low profile ones.

- Originally this guitar was going to have a different bridge. When I restarted the build I changed to a Schaller Hannes which had to be shimmed for proper height. I made a 3mm thick shim which was too much so the saddles had to be in the lowest position. Now I tried without the shim, and finally settled to a 1,5mm shim, which gives a good height adjustment range to both directions.

- The body has some scratches and dings of bad handling because the oil finish is not very durable and swamp ash is not very hard wood. I'd like to fix that but I'll leave it for some other time.

I always am not happy with my options for 9v.  I've used these little metal clips that work ok... but they scratch up the battery and are kind of a pain to get a bat in.  I bought a bunch of these plastic door type jobbies and next time I think I'll actually mount those and have a magnetic door over them to hide their ugliness.  they DO hold a battery well and are easy in/out.  looks like this would be easy in/out.  nice work.

[henrim]

4 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

I bought a bunch of these plastic door type jobbies and next time I think I'll actually mount those and have a magnetic door over them to hide their ugliness.

I have one in an electro-acoustic. Works well but it sure is an ugly thing. That cover is a really good idea!

[mistermikev]

2 minutes ago, henrim said:

I have one in an electro-acoustic. Works well but it sure is an ugly thing. That cover is a really good idea!

well... the plastic ones work... and are like $1.5 each at allied express so... gonna give em a shot anyway!

[Prostheta]

I might add that it is possible to buy 9v PP3 sized Li-Ion batteries with a built-in USB recharging port. It doesn't affect the mounting arrangement that is under discussion here, however they're a nice modern option.

I would simply make that aluminimum folded tray a little larger and put a layer of 2-3mm foam rubber inside. Easy.

[Bizman62]

@henrim, is that battery connector of some thicker plastic than the commonly used ones that only have sort of a bag around the push-buttons?

Despite providing a good connection I've never liked the push-button harnesses. The fact that I very rarely have managed to break one isn't because they're tougher than they look, it's because of being extremely careful when prying the connectors apart.

[henrim]

1 minute ago, Bizman62 said:

@henrim, is that battery connector of some thicker plastic than the commonly used ones that only have sort of a bag around the push-buttons?

That’s a connector that’s comes with EMG pickups. Better quality than what you find in toys and whatever china-ware. Still a 9V connector that is likely to fail at some point.

[henrim]

28 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

I would simply make that aluminimum folded tray a little larger and put a layer of 2-3mm foam rubber inside. Easy.

In my case the strap that holds the battery in also goes under the battery,  which effectively does the same.

[Prostheta]

Very cool. I must have missed that.

I have to constantly readjust my brain to seeing this control cavity as being behind the pickups....! I know a lot of tone freaks would blow their tops at such a thing, before retreating to their Strat with its trem cavity.

 

[henrim]

2 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

I know a lot of tone freaks would blow their tops at such a thing,

Yes, I know. I was thinking that myself and that was what led to the more recent build with the neck going under the pickups. This guitar sounds totally different than any other of my guitars. But then, this is the only one with active pickups. But I should really use same pickups if I actually wanted to compare the sound.

If there is anything to the sound on this guitar that I don’t like, it is probably the active pickups being too snappy to my liking.

Anyway, without knowing how the design affects the sound, I know I’m not going to build another guitar with this design. Or the design that came after this. But them both has given something for the next.

[Prostheta]

Hah, well this is why I dislike wading into active vs. passive discussions. I'm glad that Fluence have managed to blur that line enough to make some people question their stance either side of that. There are even those that don't understand pickups yet still have strong opinions on things....because that's what they read somewhere. Beyond the physical build of the pickup itself, an active circuit doesn't need to use 20k/25k pots in the circuit however because the preamps provide low output impedance, they just can. It helps "drive" the cable, or more specifically makes cable losses disappear. That's often why people refer to actives as "shrill", "bright", "snappy" or "sterile". It's the things you don't normally hear because of how passives are weak high impedance components with a degree of high end rolloff in the cable. If you have the opportunity, experiment with active pickups but using a standard passive circuit. You lose some of the benefits of active pickups providing a strong signal, but gain some of that passive familiarity. Dynamics still differ, because actives push a more dynamic signal less prone to the softer, squishier response of passives.

It's a huge and misunderstood conversation, I think. I get a lot of flak from both sides because I agree with neither dogmatically. Often I think that people get more joy (or some sort of emotion) out of endlessly debating these subjects rather than gaining joy from their guitars!

[henrim]

I don't know much about actives. Haven't owned many but of course I have tried them in many occasions. I guess there is prejudice there. When you know you play with actives you love or hate them because you know they are actives. 57/66 TW is actually so versatile set that you can find a huge range of sounds from them. I particularly like the single coil options, but since I have never owned any single coil guitars (apart from P90's) I don't really know how they compare. And I don't play much with the single coils in these pickups, but I like them  

There are so many variables in the chain. I can only judge when I plug a guitar after other to the same amp. I know this guitar can sound quite harsh plugged to DSL20, which can be a harsh sounding amp with any pickups (speaker do make a huge difference of course). Dimed and attenuated I find it usable in my home setup. Especially with my padouk top guitar. This one not so much. Although this can be dialled with an EQ before distortion, going to clean channel. I guess 'snappy' was a poor choice of words. Pickup should have attack. But there is something harsh not even a ceramic magnet passive has. That said, out of my currently playable builds I do prefer the guitar that has passive alnico 5 over the one that has passive ceramic magnet (bridge pickups). 

One idea in this build was to make it easy to swap pickups for testing. Though, It's not as easy as I would like to. Mostly because of the current setup with EMG wiring. Sure it's easy to swap other active EMG's in but not so much any passives.

Now that the neck is better I will play more with this one and I guess I'll find a way how to make it sound more to my liking. 

One option is to swap the pickups on these two.