Ripthorn Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Let's do this a little backward, so time for glamour shots: Alright, time for some specs and back story. Body: Pine Neck: Pine Fretboard: Pine Hardware: Whatever I had on hand Now for the story: On the woodworking forum I frequent, there was a challenge posted asking what the members could do with a single 2x4. I started thinking it would be cool to build an entire guitar from a single 2x4. Now, I am not necessarily advocating it, I know pine is not stiff nor terribly stable, but I wanted to challenge myself on these points: - Wood choice (I'm a total wood snob) - Design method; I usually am a meticulous planner and on this one I went wherever the wind blew me and didn't make any big decisions until I had to - Design a new headstock - Design a new body style - Test a new finish that I wouldn't just "test" on a "real" guitar - Dissect my techniques so that I can do better on future builds - Mini toggles for electronics and no tone knob Before you burn me at the stake, let me explain a couple of choices. I made the neck and fretboard extra thick (about 1.25" at the first fret). I also ripped the neck-thru section length wise and flipped one side. There is a double action truss rod in case the neck flexes, and I have 8's on it to keep the tension a little low. The finish is silver pearl over a black base coat. Fretboard has faux binding (which was by accident). I made the truss rod cover, jack plate, and cavity cover from aluminum. I also placed on myself the constraint that I could only use hardware I had on hand. That helped drive the headstock design, as I wanted the 6 in line look but I only had 3x3 tuners. Anyway, I call this model the Event Horizon. For those of you who aren't total nerds (like me), the event horizon is the area around a black hole past which, if something passes, it does not return. I named it this because now that I have built it, I am going to be using this design as my go-to for most every guitar from here on out unless trying to duplicate something specific. I am extremely please, despite the many mistakes. People have been asking me all along how it will sound. Well, it sounds like a guitar . It sounds pretty good, but won't be the first one I reach for when recording. Any comments or feedback is welcome. Keep in mind this whole thing was basically a full-size mock up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I like the challenge of a two by four guitar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I LOVE IT! I'll offer you $14 right now, which should buy enough 2X4's that you could do a small production run!! Ok, I'm kidding, but I really do love it. It's a real engineering triumph. Ok, fine. $22!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 That headstock is awesome! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I disagree with Chris. I think the headstock looks really bad. HOWEVER...... The rest of it looks pretty tasty. I really dig the challenge of making it from a single 2x4. I presume you went for a 12-foot board from a reputable lumber yard. It would require some precise planning and layout. I do have one question for you. I tried to use cypress in the past because it's really light and pretty inexpensive. It didn't work out do well for me because of the hard growth rings and soft wood in between. I could never get the round bits smooth enough to look good under paint/finish. Since yellow pine is similar yo cypress in that way, how did you deal with this issue? Also, what did you do to prep the wood for paint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 the headstock is certainly prettier than the nathan shepard version of this idea the other thing i am not sure about is the neck thickness. i like chunky necks, but i think 1 1/4" will make this fairly unusable. you may be able to play it fine, it probably just wont be the guitar you go to on the other hand, i have a 1930's resonator with a neck that thick and i play it all the time - for slide. so maybe if the neck doesnt survive string tension very well this will be a good candidate for a slide guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I'll agree, that neck looks like it needs a re-carve. Instead of keeping things thick I would have run carbon fiber rods down it (cheap from kite supplies, get some 1/4" tubes) and then just carved as per normal. On a side note; don't mind Avengers. For some odd reason he always seems to feel the need to be overly harsh with other people's builds whenever possible, especially on GOTM threads. Normally, I'm for open and honest. However, considering we can see he doesn't really have an eye for proportion, or quality craftsmanship, from watching his own builds come together, I'm not sure why he feels he has this right more so than others. Your headstock looks great, and WezV is right, beats the heck out of the Shepherd version too! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthorn Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I know the neck is overly chunky. The whole purpose of this build was to test some things out. I never intended to come away with an amazing instrument, just more knowledge. I am going to be doing a new build of this body style and headstock shape with nicer woods and a much better neck profile, this guy was more the proof of concept before going all out. Avenger: I found that it routed relatively well, but I did use some super glue and epoxy on what little tearout there was. I used a good sharp bit at max RPM for the roundovers. The bevels were a royal pain, as a scraper would dig in to the soft rings, so I ended up using a sanding sponge since it would conform, but still keep smooth lines. As for prep for the wood, I sprayed it with several coats of shellac (fretboard included) to seal in all the pitch and resin in the wood. I also used epoxy for knots. And I did go for a 12' board so that I could get around as many knots and such as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I love the headstock ( from the front ) but dislike the way the back of it looks, if that makes any sense. Aside from the funny headstock, I say :Bravo! Nice looking shape. Even the fat neck isn't too bad looking . I like the trap carve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Thanks Rip. It was the evening out of the soft/hard areas I was most curious about. With the paint prep, soft wood will absorb more sealer than hard. Did you find that to be an issue with the pine? headstock: I don't like the one Wez pictured either. But it doesn't look like I'm allowed to have an opinion, so I'll just stop now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthorn Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Our Souls, I know what you are saying. The outline is a little odd, but from the front, the bevels create kind of a faux silhouette that carries the theme from the top horn and truss rod cover. I don't mind if people aren't wild about it. I like it. I know that there have been a couple of projects by other forum members where I have thought "nope, not a fan", but if they like, it's cool. As for the evening out with the paint prep, I found that it took the shellac fairly even, but I did put on quite a bit to ensure the resins in the wood wouldn't affect anything. Once the shellac was down, everything else went on perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Our Souls, I know what you are saying. The outline is a little odd, but from the front, the bevels create kind of a faux silhouette that carries the theme from the top horn and truss rod cover. I don't mind if people aren't wild about it. I like it. I know that there have been a couple of projects by other forum members where I have thought "nope, not a fan", but if they like, it's cool.. that is what makes it look better front the front, and also makes it look better than Nathan Sheppard's design - yours gets a hint of parkishness from its bevels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Avengers: feel free to have any opinion you wish to have. But then I'm allowed to have one as well; even if that includes pointing out that you're often overly critical and despite trying to be proper, have a way of saying things that IMO comes off not just blunt and honest, but rude. And in many cases hypocritical given some places you lack skills in. I'll admit, this one wasn't that bad, it was simply finally the one that made me speak up. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Foreigner Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Avengers: feel free to have any opinion you wish to have. But then I'm allowed to have one as well; even if that includes pointing out that you're often overly critical and despite trying to be proper, have a way of saying things that IMO comes off not just blunt and honest, but rude. And in many cases hypocritical given some places you lack skills in. I'll admit, this one wasn't that bad, it was simply finally the one that made me speak up. Chris +1 ...but we can all be guilty of that from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 This is why I never criticize anyone's work. I own the fact that I suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 This is why I never criticize anyone's work. I own the fact that I suck. but that is boring I love constructive criticism, and think it can be very beneficial - when done considerately. i.e. 'i dont like that headstock, maybe if you tried..." is much more useful than "that headstock looks **** ... of course, there is always the problem with new ideas like this that people simply wont like it because they are not used to seeing it. Familiarity makes the heart grow fonder. which is exactly why this one looks better to my eyes than the NS version i posted even though the outline and idea are very similar, the bevels create more familiar headstock features there is certainly nothing to criticise this idea for other than aesthetic appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 there is certainly nothing to criticise this idea for other than aesthetic appeal. Well, that and the fact that it's made out of a 2X4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 IMO - if the 'bevels' were removed ie; the HS shape mimic'd the TRC/horn it would look better all the way around. I like the fact that its made of a 2x4. I build 'em out of shipping pallets, so why not a 2x4?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Well, I'm sorry that I didn't have anything constructive to add to the opinion. The only thing even resembling that would be the obvious alternatives, so I saw no reason to type out something pointless. That being said, just voicing your opinion isn't rude or harsh, so long as you don't make any personal remarks. Had I said something like "What kind of (derogatory adjective) would do something as (negative adjective) as that", THEN I could accept being called rude and harsh. Lots of folks say "I don't like that, I like this instead" without an ounce of backlash. So I left off "I like this instead". Does that alone make me rude or the comment out of line? considering we can see he doesn't really have an eye for proportion, or quality craftsmanship, That's a direct, personal attack, totally uncalled for and entirely inappropriate. We are all free to disagree with each others decisions and tastes. What we shouldn't be doing is taking that difference in opinion and make them into personal critiques. Negatively commenting on the person because you don't share their aesthetic decisions is beyond rude and well into something else entirely. Further, making these types of clearly inflammatory comments while attempting to lambast someone for (in your perception) doing the same is the definition of hypocrisy. So... 1) We all have every right to voice our opinions. 2) It's better to be constructive, but it doesn't always happen, especially with matters of pure taste. 3) We should always remember the distinction between criticizing the work and criticizing the person. 4) Don't talk when you're mad about something. Rarely does anything good come of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdshirtman Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Interesting project. Its different thats for sure. Overall I like the shape. I was wondering about the neck profile though. Obviously you made the choice because of the material for stability's sake but it doesnt look it would be very comfortable to play. Hard to say without picking it up. You dont think the truss rod would have countered forces at play there enough with a traditional profile? Maybe some reinforcing CF rods would have worked well here of was the fact that you used parts on hand a factor there? The volume knob looks like it has has a funky location also. What was the reasoning on that? Personally I like a guitar with easy volume access for ergonomics sake but thats me. What are the switch functions? Looks like you gave yourself some options there. I do like the choice of pup rings and the aluminum control cavity plate. It sets well off the color. I also like the headstock design concept (both yours and the one Wez posted) I might have to borrow that idea some day. I'm on the fence on whether it fits with the body though. I see the tie in with the bevels on the body but something about the complexity of the headstock design conflicts with the simplicity of the body to me. Kudo's on going out on a limb and trying something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ah, but you didn't say what you quoted yourself as having said. You said, "the headstock looks really bad" not what you claimed to have said, "I don't like that." That's not constructive criticism, or anything helpful at all. There was nothing to be gained from that comment besides making the person feel worse. Moreover, that's how a LOT of your comments are, and that's why I finally said something. You have a habit of just saying non-helpful comments that are attacks, pure and simple. Either that, or you simply like putting down the work of others to make yourself feel better. I'm not sure which (folks, please go read some of his GOTM replies if you're curious). As for MY personal attack on you. Yes, yes I agree that those comments were personal. However, they were put in there because they had bearing on the subject matter. I was claiming that you were dishing out unnecessary attacks about aesthetics, so the information that you yourself don't have the best aesthetic eye is in fact material to the conversation. It wasn't just thrown in willy nilly to hurt feelings, it served a purpose in the logic of the argument. As a final point, there's a big difference between how the two of us went about this. You threw stuff out there that was rude simply because you could. I went at you because you DID throw rude stuff out there and therefore opened yourself up to some of it yourself Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthorn Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 IMO - if the 'bevels' were removed ie; the HS shape mimic'd the TRC/horn it would look better all the way around. I like the fact that its made of a 2x4. I build 'em out of shipping pallets, so why not a 2x4?? I tried a mockup without the bottom bevel and I like it as well. I may make a mockup without the bevels just to see how it all looks in real material before I do my second one. There are a couple other minor things with it I want to work out as well, such as the fact that I don't have quite straight string pull on the three higher strings. But I think some people maybe misunderstood the purpose of this build. The whole purpose was to try new things and decide them in the moment, which was really new to me. If this thing doesn't play well, it's not a big deal to me, these were all parts that I wasn't going to put on a "serious" build, except for perhaps the pickup rings. As for the switches, there are bridge on/off, neck on/off, series/parallel, and neck phase. I placed the volume where I did mostl for aesthetics, as I rarely do volume swells on the guitar during a song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Chris/John, With all respect to the both of you, you're sort of hijacking a really cool thread. I, for one, will be likely to direct others here in the future for reference to the guitar made out of a 2X4. Maybe there's a better place for this discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 I agree. I thought we had dealt with it in PM and I came back on and saw more from John here. John, PM if you have more? If OP wants, I'll go cleanse my posts and plug in thread-related content? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 I tried a mockup without the bottom bevel and I like it as well. I may make a mockup without the bevels just to see how it all looks in real material before I do my second one. ......... this is where photoshop comes into play. I have to record a gig tonite but will do a photochop of the HS just to get a visual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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