Bass number two (にばん): the blue growler

[Prostheta]

Uh-huh-huh-huh. You said "enthusiasm".

[a2k]

After spending the bulk of the last project with "drill bride holes" on my todo list, I can't blame my wife for not getting excited when I show her pictures of my wood. 

[Prostheta]

[Prostheta]

I'm not entirely sure if I can follow that up with a statement about the quality of HSS M2 drills bits.

[ScottR]

Depends on if you're pushing drilling or bits.

Wives are funny creatures. Mine gets excited to see the exotic woods at the start of a project and then walks past me building it without a glance for 3 months in a row. She'll then make the appropriate noises when I show her the finished product and apparently it then ceases to exist. Six months to several years later I loan one to a buddy for a while and she acts like I'm giving away one of our children.

SR

[Prostheta]

Well, that made Nina laugh so it must be true. I empathise.

[a2k]

Fingerboard discussion time. Not gonna lie - cutting fingerboard slots was my #1 least favorite step in the last build. I figured I'd save myself the headache this time, so I ordered a pre-slotted birdseye maple fingerboard from Luthier's Mercantile. The wood is beautiful, but there are two small snags:

1. The first is when spec'ing out the slotting, I figured "space behind nut" was space behind the back of the nut, not the front. So a quarter inch behind the nut isn't going to leave much room after I cut the slot to 1/8". The typical P bass needs a little more wood behind the slot to transition down into the headstock. Any suggestions on how to work this without it looking clunky?

Here's a pic of the top of the fingerboard with a red mark showing the room past the front of the nut. 

2. The fingerboard is pretty warped. Not unusable, but not flat either. I will be radiusing the top so that will get worked out, but I still want the back flat so I can get a good seemless match with the neck. I don't think sending this through the planer is going to be wise. Sand it flat? Get it wet and use every clamp in the shop when I glue it to bend it back to flat?

Here's a pic with a line drawn to show what straight looks like. 

Thanks,

Aaron

[Prostheta]

Get straight in touch with Luthiers Mercantile since this could be construed as a product issue. It's not that far out of the flat, however that warping looks significant enough to be something that has to be discussed. The heart is on the lower left side so we can imply that the board has either warped from becoming drier than it was when originally thicknessed, or that it was too wet when originally thicknessed and has subsequently dried and moved.

Either way, contact LMI and ask. Always better to do this than to start any invasive work. Discussing the nut slot and transition is a good idea also, however I am sure that their fingerboards don't allow for this unless specifically requested. I don't think you'll have any traction on that score.

I'll get this out of the way before you even consider it (I doubt you were); do not send this through a thicknesser or over a jointer! I'd probably hot glue a strip of wood onto the top as a "handle" (glue on the strip, press lightly so as not to induce and hold a bend in the board) and sand it flat on a large board like you say. Alternatively, clamping the living hell out of it is an option, but that would build in minor stresses to the workpiece which at some point will want to equalise out.

[a2k]

Thanks Pros. I wasn't sure if this is normal or something to complain about. I shot LMI an email with the picture. We'll see what they say. I'm confident they act in good faith toward their customers. 

Anyway, too bad... it's an otherwise beautiful piece of wood. My big personal goal with this project is to really focus on the quality of my work and pay attention to the details, zeroing in on every cut, join, carve, etc. to make it the best possible. So I really don't like the idea of risking finding glue pockets under the fingerboard after I glue it on. 

[Prostheta]

I wouldn't call it complaining. I mean, it depends on how demanding of a customer that you are. Most people would be happy with that and make it work as-is. The problem is that it isn't a simple thick fretboard blank; it's already slotted. You'd expect it to be closer to being a good-to-use item than a raw blank (even a thicknessed one).

I'd go into it with the attitude of checking whether this is an acceptable example of what LMI send out for that product. If they will credit you (even partially) for it then you can discuss having a P-bass board with a larger extension made up. I haven't looked at their pre-made boards in a while, so I can't comment on whether they do these. I imagine they're not a standard like that one though.

[Prostheta]

One thing I need to buy is a reference plate for sanding. One that is ground flat and larger than a fingerboard for confirming flatness. A precision straightedge or at least a strong high quality steel ruler would reassure you on that one Aaron. You'd need to have either a very bad glueing surface or insufficiently-spread clamping to cause glue pockets.

[a2k]

I do have one of the Stew Mac 24" leveling beams. It's just long enough to go from nut to over the 21st fret. Maybe I could use it and take super ultra tiny baby sanding strokes. 

[Prostheta]

Let's see what LMI come back with first. Sanding it flat won't magically make that extension appear!

Realistically you'd be better off with a larger surface than that beam. It can be used to check other surfaces for flatness of course! Sometimes a machine's work surface (such as a jointer) is flat enough to requisition as a sanding surface. That said, you'd be surprised just how concave some machinery beds can be....us woodworkers settle for far less than the machinery crowd!

[curtisa]

1 hour ago, a2k said:

The first is when spec'ing out the slotting, I figured "space behind nut" was space behind the back of the nut, not the front. So a quarter inch behind the nut isn't going to leave much room after I cut the slot to 1/8". The typical P bass needs a little more wood behind the slot to transition down into the headstock. Any suggestions on how to work this without it looking clunky?

How about fitting a Gibson-style shelf nut and retaining the curve down to the surface of the headstock as per traditional Fender neck construction? I have an old Yamaha Pacifica that does exactly that and it looks/works fine.

 

1 hour ago, a2k said:

The fingerboard is pretty warped. Not unusable, but not flat either. I will be radiusing the top so that will get worked out, but I still want the back flat so I can get a good seemless match with the neck. I don't think sending this through the planer is going to be wise. Sand it flat? Get it wet and use every clamp in the shop when I glue it to bend it back to flat?

Does the workshop have a sanding thicknesser?

Bear in mind that to sand the back flat to level it out you'll be reducing the overall thickness of the board until the edges are at the same level as the middle. And then to radius it you'll reduce it to the thickness of the narrowest point of the re-flattened fretboard, which in your case looks like it would be dead up the centreline. Make sure you plan it such that you leave yourself enough fretboard thickness to be practical.

Also need to consider that if you do decide to correct the cup using any method, LMII may not accept a return/exchange if it doesn't work out.

[a2k]

5 minutes ago, curtisa said:

How about fitting a Gibson-style shelf nut and retaining the curve down to the surface of the headstock as per traditional Fender neck construction? I have an old Yamaha Pacifica that does exactly that and it looks/works fine.

 

I like this idea. Are they just glued on? 

6 minutes ago, curtisa said:

Does the workshop have a sanding thicknesser?

Bear in mind that to sand the back flat to level it out you'll be reducing the overall thickness of the board until the edges are at the same level as the middle. And then to radius it you'll reduce it to the thickness of the narrowest point of the re-flattened fretboard, which in your case looks like it would be dead up the centreline. Make sure you plan it such that you leave yourself enough fretboard thickness to be practical.

Also need to consider that if you do decide to correct the cup using any method, LMII may not accept a return/exchange if it doesn't work out.

2

Somewhere in my mind I recall seeing a thickness sander there, but I'm not 100% certain. They just got new sanding equipment installed so I'll take a look tomorrow. In the meantime, let's see what LMII has to say. I imagine they are sleeping right now...

[Prostheta]

Cheat through cosmetics. If you have some Maple binding make some blind slots. You can use waste from the other end of the board to make a "false ramp" at the top end. The edges will be covered with the binding, hiding the fact they are two separate pieces.

This is an overcomplication of course, and the best fixes are usually the simplest.

[Norris]

Stick a zero fret in the existing slot, then have the nut sitting off the end of the board?

But as Pros says, I'd question the suppliers first, as the warping needs sorting first

[curtisa]

3 hours ago, a2k said:

I like this idea. Are they just glued on? 

Yep. A little bit of PVA, or a tiny dot of epoxy for stubbornly slippery nuts is all it takes.

[Prostheta]

I've played around with the idea (in my head) of drilling and tapping M2,5 grub screws for attaching a nut to the end of the fingerboard....

Do not do this. The things in my head are not a good thing. 

[a2k]

12 hours ago, Norris said:

Stick a zero fret in the existing slot, then have the nut sitting off the end of the board?

 

I like the idea, but the nut slot was cut so the line is at the edge of the saw kerf instead of the center, like the fret slots are.

[a2k]

Just heard back from LMII and I thought I'd share their response about the fingerboard for those that are following along. 

Quote

Hi Aaron,
Thanks for writing and for the photo.
This is not typical of our fingerboards, but Maple is less stable than
other species, and so we do see this from time to time. Dried,
stabalized wood can still move under some conditions. The fact that it
was stored inside does not rule out that environment was a factor
here, so we can only replace the board for you once and we ask that
you please get back to us closer to the receipt date in the future.
Also, please review this article on wood storage:
http://www.lmii.com/wood-drying-storage

1

I very much appreciate them responding quickly and "putting the customer first". I also appreciate they (as well as many of the other vendors that sell to us) have taken the time to create educational content on their site that covers things the wood storage. Thanks Luthier's Mercantile. 

[a2k]

I got a few hours in the shop last week on Wednesday and Thursday. In that time I got the body pretty close to squared away (minus sanding, so that makes me about 25% done  ). On Wednesday I routed the body outline to the template and got the electronics and pickup cavities routed out. On Thursday, I got the edges rounded over, the neck pocket routed out, and the tummy and forearm cuts done. This thing is coming together fast!

Action shots...

Hogging out material with the drill press:

Routing pickup and electronics cavities:

The body with a clean outline...

Routing the neck pocket...

'

The neck pocket...

And the rough tummy cut (it's now finished, but I forgot to photograph it)...

This is going so much faster than the last project! It's simpler build, but I'd like to say my skills are leveling up too. I'm spending much less time figuring out the basics and more time getting things done. 

I also cleaned up my maple for the neck to see what I am working with. I like the look of the wood but am a little concerned about the overall waviness of the grain. Here's what it looks like:

Today I've got two questions:

Q1 - Any expert opinions on the suitability of this wood for becoming a neck?

Q2 - I'm waiting on my fingerboard replacement to arrive from LMII. In the meantime, this week I plan on making the pick guard. I'm planning on using some of the leftover quilted maple from my last project. I'd like to get it as thin as possible - I'm thinking 1/16". Will it be too fragile at that thickness? And should I be worried about a router tearing chunks out of a thin piece of wood like that? I would route it thicker and thin it out, but I don't have a thickness sander.

Thanks for following along.

Aaron

[Prostheta]

Oh wow, well there it goes and picks up again! Nice work Aaron.

Grain is a disputed term between some people, which tends to lead to confusion about what works and what won't. Flame Maple is fine for necks for example, but quilt isn't. How straight are the grain lines on the side of the piece? That is the first thing I look for. If they're fundamentally curved or distorted rather than just wavy figuring or compression lines, that is there most problems tend to lay.

The other alternative is what I did to work around the small size of Birch trees, and that's to laminate the neck up. The blank I made last week hasn't moved at all, and it still completely flat all four sides.

The thing with Fender necks, is that if you make the templates well then you can rattle off replacement necks like anything. I've been tempted to make another myself.

Quilt might be a bit fractious, but not as much as flame I think. It should work easier, but may not want to stay flat.

[a2k]

Life got in the way of shop time last week and yesterday (and likely will today too). That's okay - I don't want to ever feel rushed or distracted when in the shop. The new fretboard arrived warp free and with enough space behind the nut to work with. It doesn't have as interesting of wood grain as the first one, but it's still a nice piece of birdseye maple and it's flat. 

In the meantime I've had two additional weeks for my one-piece maple neck to settle. It did move ever-so-slightly after planing. It bowed just a tiny bit along the long axis, but hasn't twisted or warped on the short axis. My gut tells me it's okay, but I may be blinded by optimism. The safe bet is to put a laminate in the middle, but aesthetically I am really hoping to do a one-piece neck. I know there isn't an answer beyond deciding if I am comfortable with the risk of having to throw the neck out if it twists. I've got a week to decide (and watch for further movement while the local humidity goes up and down through the rainy season)...

If I can get in the shop today, the plan is to make the pick guard.

[Prostheta]

I share that sentiment on many levels. I think that my best work, or at least the most important part of it, is done outside of the shop. When I go in to do work, I get the best results when the process has already been mentally-formalised. Making anything up on the spot is asking for trouble.

Good to hear that your Maple has done its thing. I always keep an eye on my hygrometer. The last few days have hit 50-60%. Have a look at this chart:

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-and-moisture/

My home workshop is not climate-controlled, so I try and be mindful of the EMC. I try and use wood that is between 7-10%, so when the humidity is high (23,1°C, 53% right now) dry wood is gaining moisture from the environment. That can cause it to move out of its "best working position". That's my understanding of it anyway. 53% is still under 10% and the wood takes a little time to capture moisture and reach that equilibrium, however if it's moving I like to leave it be.

As mentioned, more than likely your wood was not stored indoors in a closed and heated environment. The EMC was likely higher and a little movement from bringing indoors should be expected. If you're the especially patient type, plane her clean and see what she does. The rainy season will no doubt play havoc with movement.

As an aside, I learnt that Yamaha have a facility that is dedicated specifically to making pianos for us rugged northern climate types. Apparently pianos built for the "normal" parts of the world would be more likely to warp and crack here. I guess that new production instruments are more prone to that of course. Still, interesting observation.

A laminate doesn't change the movement or restrict it as such. Lamination simply means you can start re-arranging and strategising where that movement does or does not take place. Bigger pieces of wood are more likely to have a larger cross-section of smaller-radius growth rings, which is the kind of non-linear movement that causes the most intractable problems. Slicing that up and rearranging the direction of expansion/contraction to a more predictable and more linear direction makes it less problematic. When I was planing the Birch laminates for my ongoing neck-through project, I favoured removing excess material towards the heart of the wood since that's where the smaller rings lay.

This is just a guideline and an insight into my thought process. There are people far more qualified and experienced than me on wood storage and workshop climate management. Knowing the origins of potential problems from movement is always the first step. Patience and observation are maybe the second of this fictitious numbered list for anal types.