mistermikev Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, ADFinlayson said: Guitar is looking great @spottydog it has a real vintage vibe about it. If there is any relief in the neck, you could tighten the rod which would reduce the action in the middle of the board but I doubt it would be enough. What is the situation with the bridge, is it set as low as it will go? If so I think your only option will be to recess it by 3mm to get the lower action. I have seen posts where folk have filed down the underside of the bridge to get it to sit a bit lower I don't think you could file off 3mm I think you might be able to get close... just depends. on most of those saddles they are built arched so you are really only taking it off the edges for the first 1-2mm. all in all if the combo of all should be enough to get you there and if not you can always do what AD suggested and recess it. I'd only do that as a last resort but higher on the list than removing the neck or fretboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spottydog Posted May 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 Yes the bridge is as low as it will go. Thank you for the suggestions I will have a good think about it before I do anything. Is this a common problem and how do you stop it from happening many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, spottydog said: Yes the bridge is as low as it will go. Thank you for the suggestions I will have a good think about it before I do anything. Is this a common problem and how do you stop it from happening many thanks you need to factor the break angle into the top/neck pocket early on in the build - ultimately you need a minimum of 2.5º for a tunomatic but my method is this: I take a block of wood that is the (height of bridge + 2mm) - (height of fretboard and frets) e.g 8mm. Then place it at the bride position and plane down the top towards the neck pocket. That gives you an angled surface that you can stick your neck pocket template on. Then when you route your neck pocket, the floor of the pocket will be the same angle as the top and everything should line up nicely! Obviously the above will not fix your issue now, but it will work on future builds, it's never failed me yet. Also disclaimer: This is Ben Crowe's method not mine, I just stole it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 Pretty, down home like a summer cottage! Start by checking the nut height. Less than 1 mm between the first fret and the string is low enough to start with. You can use a pick of 1 mm, if it barely stays between the string and the first fret it's good. File the slots deeper if needed, the highest point being at the very edge on the fretboard side. After having adjusted the nut check the action again. If it still is high check that the neck is straight. You're aiming to have it to give just a little in with the string pull, without the strings a stiff neck should be perfectly straight. You don't want a hump in the middle of the neck since that will buzz! If all that is well and done and you still have your action too high, recessing the bridge by double the amount you need to lower the action at the 12th fret is an option. A lower bridge might also be available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spottydog Posted May 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 Many thanks for the advice. I plan to fix my current problem by recessing the bridge but I will practice on scrap wood first to get it right before routing the guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, spottydog said: Many thanks for the advice. I plan to fix my current problem by recessing the bridge but I will practice on scrap wood first to get it right before routing the guitar don't just practice... make a template. it will be good practive and guarantee a good result. I would just drill two 3/8" or 1/2" holes in mdf and then connect them using a straight edge. this will make a pretty solid template. you will have to remove your studs... put the stud back in and use a claw hammer to grab it (assuming it's not in there too tight.(def don't push against the top tho!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 17 hours ago, mistermikev said: don't just practice... make a template. it will be good practive and guarantee a good result. I would just drill two 3/8" or 1/2" holes in mdf and then connect them using a straight edge. this will make a pretty solid template. you will have to remove your studs... put the stud back in and use a claw hammer to grab it (assuming it's not in there too tight.(def don't push against the top tho!) Nooo, I would never use a claw to remove the wells. all you need to do is drop in a metal dowel in that is slightly smaller than the stud then carefully screw the stud back in and it will push the well out. These are the metal dowels I use, one is just a heavy duty threaded insert and the other is a 1/4" shank that I sawed off an old router bit. Drop one dowel in then use a metal straight edge with a few layers of masking tape to carefully screw down the stud, the straight provides a good bit of leverage while protecting the stud. Just keep screwing the bridge stud down and the well will gradually rise until you reach the end of the dowel, then unscrew the well and drop the other one in. Then repeat the process until the well is all the way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, ADFinlayson said: Nooo, I would never use a claw to remove the wells. all you need to do is drop in a metal dowel in that is slightly smaller than the stud then carefully screw the stud back in and it will push the well out. These are the metal dowels I use, one is just a heavy duty threaded insert and the other is a 1/4" shank that I sawed off an old router bit. Drop one dowel in then use a metal straight edge with a few layers of masking tape to carefully screw down the stud, the straight provides a good bit of leverage while protecting the stud. Just keep screwing the bridge stud down and the well will gradually rise until you reach the end of the dowel, then unscrew the well and drop the other one in. Then repeat the process until the well is all the way out. is a good idea as long as they aren't closed (I'm almost certain I've seen ones that are). that said, I've done this many times w/o issue. haven't even scratched the studs. it depends on how tight your stud is in there, but in most cases I've been surprised how easy they come out - as long as your pulling straight up. mind you I'm not saying to use it like you are pulling a nail out... just using the claw to grab onto the stud and lifting up. for anyone who didn't realize you didn't mean a wood dowel, if you actually used a dowel instead of something metal, you could compress that dowel and lock the stud in tighter. that's what I actually thought you meant at first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, mistermikev said: is a good idea as long as they aren't closed (I'm almost certain I've seen ones that are). that said, I've done this many times w/o issue. haven't even scratched the studs. it depends on how tight your stud is in there, but in most cases I've been surprised how easy they come out - as long as your pulling straight up. mind you I'm not saying to use it like you are pulling a nail out... just using the claw to grab onto the stud and lifting up. for anyone who didn't realize you didn't mean a wood dowel, if you actually used a dowel instead of something metal, you could compress that dowel and lock the stud in tighter. that's what I actually thought you meant at first. I've always found the well that is pushed in against the earth wire is quite tight, too tight to pull out by hand anyway. If the screw head of the stud is closed, then the same principle applies just with a flat head screwdriver and some tape to protect the screw head. For the record, when I've removed wells from maple/mahogany, the softer woods have a bit of give and it's easier to get studs out, but when I've done with with wenge and ovangkol, once the wells are in, they're in! so the screw out method is a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, ADFinlayson said: I've always found the well that is pushed in against the earth wire is quite tight, too tight to pull out by hand anyway. If the screw head of the stud is closed, then the same principle applies just with a flat head screwdriver and some tape to protect the screw head. For the record, when I've removed wells from maple/mahogany, the softer woods have a bit of give and it's easier to get studs out, but when I've done with with wenge and ovangkol, once the wells are in, they're in! so the screw out method is a must. no I meant if the wells are closed on the bottom. not even sure if that exists because I looked at some I had laying in a drawer and I was sure they were closed but they aren't. I would think the screw down method would put some turning pressure on your wells. so if they are in there soft... you might actually make them more loose, no? it's a good trick and I'll keep it in mind for the next time I'm in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 31 minutes ago, mistermikev said: I would think the screw down method would put some turning pressure on your wells. so if they are in there soft... you might actually make them more loose, no? No, but there's a risk of pushing the dowel right through the bottom. Unlikely but possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spottydog Posted May 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 Normally I get the studs out with a piece of wood to protect the body and a flat pry bar to gently ease the stud out. Had no problems with this method if you are careful and gentle with the pry bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 I think the main risk using a claw hammer (or anything similar) isn't so much damage to the top of the guitar by levering. That can be avoided through use of some kind of padded caul to spread the pressure. The bigger risk is that the holes the studs are inserted into will oval-out as you withdraw the stud. A fulcrum claw cannot pull an embedded item out vertically in a straight line. If you've ever tried to pull a nail out of a piece of timber you'll know that the nail rarely comes out straight and the hole it leaves behind is almost never circular. If your studs have closed bottoms (ooerr...) you can still use the screw-in method. The trick is to just use a bolt and an extremely thick 'washer' that allows the bolt head to press against a raised surface and withdraw the stud. As the bolt comes close to bottoming out inside the stud you just remove it, increase the thickness of the packing washer and start screwing it back in again. Repeat as necessary until the stud is fully withdrawn. Layers of 1/4" MDF with a big hole drilled through the middle should be enough to get almost any stud out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 @curtisa I just had to illustrate that: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 That's pretty much it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Here are the methods I watched on youtube before removing wells for the first time, they're essentially what myself and @curtisa have described: Push method: Pull method: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spottydog Posted June 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 Finally got the bridge recessed but still a bit high. Next I will change the large pick up ring to a small one to allow me to drop the strings further down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted June 2, 2019 Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 30 minutes ago, spottydog said: Finally got the bridge recessed but still a bit high. Next I will change the large pick up ring to a small one to allow me to drop the strings further down. I always finD the Gibson style pickup rings too TALL for my builds, I usually end up sticking some sandpaper to a flat surface and sanding the bottom of the rings until they're short enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted June 2, 2019 Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 24 minutes ago, spottydog said: Finally got the bridge recessed but still a bit high. A bit indeed! Isn't that as much as you said before, 8/32"? This is starting to look suspicious... Just as a check list: - How high are the strings at the first fret? That should be in the 1 - 1.5 mm range, or 3/64 to 1/16". - Is the neck straight? If those two are OK, then your neck break angle is off. Either the cavity isn't right or the gluing has failed. Ouch! Check the neck joint. As the images show, the strings don't bend much over the bridge. That will kill the sustain and most likely also cause buzzing and other issues. If lowering the bridge is the only viable cure, then you should sink the tailpiece as well. However, by reading your ruler it looks like you should recess the bridge about 3/4" for comfortable playability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted June 2, 2019 Report Share Posted June 2, 2019 I concur... looks awfully high to me... but then I like my strings extremely low... unless I'm playin' slide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spottydog Posted June 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 Hi I have now routed the bridge and also drilled out the holes for the saddle so that it is now level with the top of the guitar. This has given me a string night at the 12th fret of 4mm with adjustments to the pick up hight I will probably get the strings down to 3mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, spottydog said: Hi I have now routed the bridge and also drilled out the holes for the saddle so that it is now level with the top of the guitar. This has given me a string night at the 12th fret of 4mm with adjustments to the pick up hight I will probably get the strings down to 3mm sounds about right for the low e... but high e should be 1.5mm... or as we say in the usa... one and a HALF mm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spottydog Posted June 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 It should be about that on the high e when it is all set up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spottydog Posted June 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 Could anyone advise me on what to use and how to shield the cables on a 335 guitar many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 46 minutes ago, spottydog said: Could anyone advise me on what to use and how to shield the cables on a 335 guitar many thanks I'll tell you what I know anyway... the wires from the pickups, and the wires from the vol pots to the 3 way, and the wire from the 3 way to the output should be shielded. you want to take care to make sure you keep the parts you strip back to make connections as short as possible. wires from vol pots to tone pots really don't matter since the signal that travels them will be bled do ground. I used the std push back wire you see gibson using - you can find it on evilbay. https://www.ebay.com/p/4-FT-White-black-Vintage-Waxed-Cloth-Insulated-22g-Wire-for-Vintage-Guitars-Bass/2273058918?iid=332802391050 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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