Crusader Posted February 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 Welcome to more mistakes and patching, I think I should drop "Crusader" as my handle and change it to "Mr Patch-up" This error highlights the need to check before chopping (CBC) Some time in the last 3 or 4 months I marked where the pickups will go and I got it wrong. I went ahead the other day and routered the pickup wells without making sure they were right. I made it 39mm to the centre of the coil rather than centre of the pickup, which made it 9mm too far from the bridge. If I had a single coil this would be the ideal location but not for a humbucker. Some of my guitars are rather dark sounding and I want to get a crisp bright tone out of this one (One reason for the Rock Maple) I took the piece I cut out and glued it back in hoping to get the grain to line up I had to square the corners and extend the notch for the ears for both locations And in the end the result wasn't spectacular but "she'll be right mate" And so here we are, not finished yet but its a living breathing monster This guitar has been no end of mistakes and stuff-ups but some things just work out right I was concerned about the bridge location in case there's any magic behind it that will affect tone. This is one reason I decided to go with the 666 scale length. I calculated that it would land about ten millimetres further up than to scale But due to the body turning out to be slightly smaller than planned (12.5% bigger) and the neck joining not quite at the 15th fret, the bridge location turned out to be perfectly to scale! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 Sometimes your subconscious knows what it's doing and saves your ass....er' guitar It really is going to be a monster. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted February 26, 2022 Report Share Posted February 26, 2022 Big is beautiful! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted February 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2022 Thanks guys, well I'm still quietly steaming over the mis-placed bridge pickup, its the dumbest thing in the world. I'm confident that I will patch it up nicely but would be so much better if I didn't have to. Now that its got strings and pickups on I've been playing it like crazy trying to decide on switching choices and maybe chuck in a middle pickup Every guitar I make is an experiment and some things with this one; When tuned to E the 666 scale is too bright. When Luthiers of the past chose 25 1/2 inches they got it right. and after all my idea is to tune to D, using 11-52 gauge strings, it works out well with tension I don't like the join at the 15th fret. The bridge would be 5/8th further up if joining at the 16th fret and I'm not so concerned about that now. The neck would be 5/8th longer too but that's not too much really. What concerns me with a longer neck is the effectiveness of the truss rod I'm not too crazy about the 24 frets but that's another reason against joining at the 15th fret, its a bit of a stretch to reach the high notes (I think Bucket Head's joins at the 17th fret) Going for a longer scale causes a dilemma of how many frets to have. My idea of a longer scale and 24 frets is to tune to D and still reach D at the top, and if you want you can put a capo at the 2nd fret then the markers aren't too confusing either. A previous guitar I made with 666 scale has 23 frets which means the Neck pickup doesn't need to be pushed closer to the bridge, but I find it just too confusing to play, so for me its either 22 or 24 frets. Some people tune to Eb, then 23 frets would be fine but as mentioned the markers would be too confusing, unless you put them one step up but that would be confusing as well So my conclusion for a longer scale always comes to 24 frets and tune to D Hope all my findings are interesting to someone out there, happy strumming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted February 28, 2022 Report Share Posted February 28, 2022 24 minutes ago, Crusader said: So my conclusion for a longer scale always comes to 24 frets and tune to D Hope all my findings are interesting to someone out there, Yes, the logic behind things is interesting at least to me. It's logical to have a longer scale tuned lower as the extra length is at the low end. Like, when you're playing a barred E chord the scale from the bar to the bridge would be of standard length but you'd have two extra frets for easier fingering. Following that line of thought a guitar is just a ukulele on steroids with two extra strings and a dozen extra frets to go left. 33 minutes ago, Crusader said: 23 frets which means the Neck pickup doesn't need to be pushed closer to the bridge, Umm... Are you talking about the Neck pickup optimally located at the 1/4 spot of the scale length? Another theory tidbit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted February 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Bizman62 said: Umm... Are you talking about the Neck pickup optimally located at the 1/4 spot of the scale length? Another theory tidbit... No, with the situation I was speaking of the pickup is the same distance from the bridge as a regular 24 3/4" scale, its unchanged Edited February 28, 2022 by Crusader clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted February 28, 2022 Report Share Posted February 28, 2022 26 minutes ago, Crusader said: No, with the situation I was speaking of the pickup is the same distance from the bridge as a regular 24 3/4" scale, its unchanged Ahh, so it has nothing to do with the tonal theory, nodes and such, only about looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted February 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, Bizman62 said: Ahh, so it has nothing to do with the tonal theory, nodes and such, only about looks. In any situation, closer to the bridge means brighter sound... But having brought the topic up, it seems to me that some people can hear the difference when a pickup is on the second octave node and some people can't. In fact sometimes I can't. Hearing is a funny thing, I've shown my guitars to people who can't tell the difference between the Neck and Bridge pickup Also, I wouldn't see the point of having a longer scale length and take frets off in order to get the pickup on the second octave node. I anticipate that it wouldn't sound all that great and I think the idea of a longer scale is to have a broader range from low to high The reason I jumped back on the computer just now is because of something I forgot to mention earlier. This guitar has a very 'boomy' sound being fully hollow. It might be good for Jazz, like an ES-175. I've thought about putting a Mahogany block inside but its already quite heavy I've been playing it tuned to D and it gets feedback on the low D very easily, so that must be its resonant frequency and I wonder if it would be better suited to being tuned to Eb after all. I wouldn't find that very easy to get along with though Got to get the Graphtech Ghost Piezo going 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted February 28, 2022 Report Share Posted February 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, Crusader said: In any situation, closer to the bridge means brighter sound... Tru dat, it's relatively easy to hear on a three pickup Strat how the low end vanishes. At least I can hear it when playing myself, but definitely I'm not one of those who can tell a pickup position just by listening! The pickup-on-node theory is still somewhat fascinating to me. Speaking of Strats, the mid pickup is also on a node and the bridge pickup is close enough to one, open string harmonics that is. One might argue that when fretting a note the harmonics would travel off the pickups and that is also true. Artificial harmonics, if I've understood the terms right... But if the pickups are placed to fraction spots of the scale length there should always be a node close enough to the pickup. Which harmonic will be cut and which emphasized is another question - that's most likely the reason why the same chord sounds different when fretted at another position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 1, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2022 Interesting thoughts! Yes there is a lot that can be talked about in that topic. I've found as guide that most guitars have the Neck pickup at (or near) 1/4 of the scale length, the Middle 1/6 and the Bridge 1/16th 10 hours ago, Bizman62 said: Ahh, so it has nothing to do with the tonal theory, nodes and such, only about looks. .... talking about looks, yes that is another grumble about having to move the humbucker closer to the bridge. It looks a bit odd and think it would look better and sound just as good with a HSS configuration And that leads me to another bit of a grumble about this guitar, it has that "too much Maple" kind of sound. I think you call it a mid-range 'honk' It seems to affect the Neck pickup mostly and it doesn't seem to matter if its in Humbucker mode or which coil used when split, it all sounds the same I keep comparing it to my ES which also had that mid-range honk when I first made it but it seems to have disappeared (or I've just gotten used to it) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 1, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2022 Of course one way to solve all my problems is to have three humbuckers. I don't know why I didn't think of it before, maybe my brain just shut it out because I hate three humbuckers. I don't like the look, I can't play them because the plectrum hits the pickup, and it seems to me to be totally unnecessary But I will consider it because it will hide the patching in the top and will get the Strat-quack sound I so desire A quick photoshop to help my musings....I just hate it, it looks like a Spinal Tap 15 pickups in a row joke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invader Zim Posted March 2, 2022 Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 14 hours ago, Crusader said: I can't play them because the plectrum hits the pickup. This. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 A while back someone said I will need a Summing board, well here's my summing board... And this is the current state of my Big Les Paul, wondering if I can make a feature of the convenience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted March 4, 2022 Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 Nice spacious control cavity! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2022 I've been trying out the Piezo pickups LR Baggs and the Graphtech, both sound great and can't hear any tonal difference. Then I went back to comparing the Dimarzios and I'm thinking maybe I should have left the Bridge alone, it might have got closer to a Strat quack sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted March 5, 2022 Report Share Posted March 5, 2022 21 hours ago, Crusader said: wondering if I can make a feature of the convenience! Just thinking out loud, have you given any thought of usingtoggle latches to fasten the bottom? Maybe I should have worn a mask when sanding the finish today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2022 On 3/5/2022 at 11:19 PM, Bizman62 said: Just thinking out loud, have you given any thought of usingtoggle latches to fasten the bottom? Maybe I should have worn a mask when sanding the finish today? It would be good to come up with some idea, binding round the back would be a good start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted March 6, 2022 Report Share Posted March 6, 2022 I can't see any mistakes. I'm blinded by the lovliness that is plain maple... wowza! nice work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 On 3/5/2022 at 11:19 PM, Bizman62 said: Just thinking out loud, have you given any thought of usingtoggle latches to fasten the bottom? Someone I know suggested velcro! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 There's some fascinating stuff going on here Summing boards - Hmmm... I think your solution is indeed better. The Graphtech one is an absolute disaster - almost designed to fail. I just solder them nowadays. Schaller used the same one on their top-price Hannes bridge/Flagship preamp system, Failed (of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 7 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: There's some fascinating stuff going on here Summing boards - Hmmm... I think your solution is indeed better. The Graphtech one is an absolute disaster - almost designed to fail. I just solder them nowadays. Schaller used the same one on their top-price Hannes bridge/Flagship preamp system, Failed (of course). Thank you for your comments Unfortunately I've already bought the "Advanced Preamp Kit" which cost a lot of money and waiting for it to arrive. This of course was before I found out you can run them without a battery. The Advanced Kit doesn't have the same Summing board so that's good but I'm more puzzled why you need the Preamp at all They say its necessary for blending with the regular pickups, and it seems they mean to plug into one amp But what kind of amp can do both electric and acoustic guitar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Crusader said: Thank you for your comments Unfortunately I've already bought the "Advanced Preamp Kit" which cost a lot of money and waiting for it to arrive. This of course was before I found out you can run them without a battery. The Advanced Kit doesn't have the same Summing board so that's good but I'm more puzzled why you need the Preamp at all They say its necessary for blending with the regular pickups, and it seems they mean to plug into one amp But what kind of amp can do both electric and acoustic guitar? very common to use piezo and an 'acoustic simulator'... helix and axe fx both have. freq folks will take an impulse response from an acoustic and play through that. it can be fairly convincing. so long story short... it's not as unusual as it sounds. in fact with just a vst cab sim you could play through an acoustic ir and I would bet get a decent acoustic sound with the right IR. why you need a preamp... well you prob don't if you weren't combining with magnetics... but the impedence mismatch between the two will mean that they won't blend well - one will be much louder than other. cool build. have often thought of doing a ghost saddle guitar more for midi than anything else. Still think most of those setups don't track all that great... so guess I'm waiting for that day to come... that and how expensive they are. look fwd to hearing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader Posted March 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 5 hours ago, mistermikev said: very common to use piezo and an 'acoustic simulator'... Most of what you said there went straight over my head LOL but thanks for the info. I don't think I'll be buying any new amps atm but its good to know what's out there. And yes the different impedance is something I know and understand but when you go through two separate outputs with two separate amps its a non-issue. What I'm thinking now is I may as well use the Preamp seeing as I've bought it anyway and wondering if I can figure a way to have a switch so the magnetics can be used without the battery Talking about genuine accoustic sound, that's one reason why I want to keep this one fully hollow, and the other day I scooped the Top out more from the inside. Two reasons for this 1) It has that "too much Maple sound" and 2) for better resonance So for 1) I think it was a waste of time 'cos it still sounds exactly the same and 2) Probably also won't make any noticeable difference but it can't hurt One thing though about this though is I've ruled out a middle pickup, its just taking too much of the top out, deteriorating resonance and strength Doing a sound comparison, I recorded the guitar before I shaved the top out and there might be a slight difference like adjusting the eq. a bit. Another thing though it sounds a bit funny at first but it goes away after a while and I don't notice it What I'm talking about is the "too much Maple" sound (that's what I call it) A kind-of overly creamy sound in the midrange predominantly on the 3rd string. This is a tricky thing with guitars and tone, sometimes you hear something and sometimes you don't, and I think this is the cause of many an argument 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 13 hours ago, Crusader said: But what kind of amp can do both electric and acoustic guitar? An amp designed for an acoustic might be more versatile as it's clean. There's pedals to produce any electric sound you can imagine plus some you can't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Crusader said: Talking about genuine accoustic sound, that's one reason why I want to keep this one fully hollow, and the other day I scooped the Top out more from the inside. Two reasons for this 1) It has that "too much Maple sound" and 2) for better resonance So for 1) I think it was a waste of time 'cos it still sounds exactly the same and 2) Probably also won't make any noticeable difference but it can't hurt First, that scoop makes the build look so much more top drawer! No one can see it but you know it's there - and it can change the resonance. Based on the theories learned from RSW mandolin builds I guess you won't get a true acoustic sound out of that guitar unless you cut a hole on the top to let the sound out! Further, there's most likely some proven wisdom behind the traditional size and location of the sound hole(s) to get the most out of it. Simplified, the top should be resonant and the bottom should be stiff and scooped like a parabolic mirror so it directs the sound waves to a single spot i.e. the sound hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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