"Fish On" Fretless Bass Project

[mistermikev]

46 minutes ago, ScottR said:

The handling also adds skin oil transfer. The higher sanding also increases reflectance, and the light scattering enhances the figure.

SR

if it was handling... you'd think you'd see it more around the edges... but it is very consistent and I doubt I touched it quite THAT much.  which makes me think it's something else altho I am aware that hand oils def do influence. 

fully aware of the risk that I've asked you this before... but as i recall you sand up beyond 400 yes?  It sticks in my mind because I've read many say that after 400 grit you start to burnish the wood.  

[Bizman62]

8 hours ago, mistermikev said:

I've read many say that after 400 grit you start to burnish the wood.  

I've heard/read that too. But my own experience tells it doesn't if your sanding technique is up to the task.

If you put all the weight of your shoulders on the sandpaper and never clean the dust off the paper you can burnish wood with 16 grit! Yes, you read right, sixteen grit. I've seen that happen. It's the coagulated dust that burnishes wood, not the abrasive.

I've often compared sanding to mowing your lawn. The intention is to cut the grass, not steamroll it level with the ground. Similarly you can think that each abrasive fragment is a blade which only can cut the distance between the tip and the paper base. In 16 grit it's about 3 mm, past 400 we're talking about thousandths of a millimetre. The finer the paper the more your sanding should look and feel like fondling rather than working.

As I said, accumulated dust can coagulate into a hard shiny plate with quite a lot of friction. Mesh abrasives are a bit more forgiving as part of the dust comes through. Using your fingers instead of a sanding block can also tell about dust buildup before any harm is done as you can feel both the temperature and any lumps under the paper.

Pet, don't rub!

[mistermikev]

1 hour ago, Bizman62 said:

I've heard/read that too. But my own experience tells it doesn't if your sanding technique is up to the task.

If you put all the weight of your shoulders on the sandpaper and never clean the dust off the paper you can burnish wood with 16 grit! Yes, you read right, sixteen grit. I've seen that happen. It's the coagulated dust that burnishes wood, not the abrasive.

I've often compared sanding to mowing your lawn. The intention is to cut the grass, not steamroll it level with the ground. Similarly you can think that each abrasive fragment is a blade which only can cut the distance between the tip and the paper base. In 16 grit it's about 3 mm, past 400 we're talking about thousandths of a millimetre. The finer the paper the more your sanding should look and feel like fondling rather than working.

As I said, accumulated dust can coagulate into a hard shiny plate with quite a lot of friction. Mesh abrasives are a bit more forgiving as part of the dust comes through. Using your fingers instead of a sanding block can also tell about dust buildup before any harm is done as you can feel both the temperature and any lumps under the paper.

Pet, don't rub!

well sanding softer is def faster - I've learned that lesson as a solid surface fab.  the key there being to join things with no visible lines... and to do that you have to remove mill marks w/o taking things out of square.  If you sand w a lot of pressure... you are guaranteed to take it out of square.  Also heats up the sandpaper and makes it wear faster.  So a lot of benefits to sanding w very little pressure and it makes sense that pressure/heat would be much more likely to burnish.  Is a good point to always remove dust as much as possible while working.

def believe that sanding reveals figure, but all that said... still think there is something to just letting wood sit and age.  when I buy wood that has been sitting... even rough cut, that surface always shows the grain really well.  as soon as I start working it... seems like I'm always trying to get back to that state the wood was in.  this top has all sorts of mill marks and yet the figure is really popping right now... not a smooth surface on it yet as I haven't sanded the face at all.  It def did not pop like this right after I milled it.  makes me wonder if I should try some future experiment with making some tanin and doing an extremely light application.   

[Stu.]

On 8/24/2020 at 9:15 PM, Norris said:

Then when it's finished you can sit and practice your scales...

I've already got my coat

So glad I wasn't the only one thinking about scales. 2.5 years too late though.

 

All of the little details are great on these and I'm looking forward to seeing the flamed maple and purpleheart popping with finish! That's such a pretty wood combination

[mistermikev]

44 minutes ago, Stu. said:

So glad I wasn't the only one thinking about scales. 2.5 years too late though.

 

All of the little details are great on these and I'm looking forward to seeing the flamed maple and purpleheart popping with finish! That's such a pretty wood combination

thanks, yes a classic combo. thank you for noticing!

 

this job has been riddled with re-work... and today is no exception... in starting to put together my electronics I realize 1) that I have to do a "left handed" version of my piezo preamp because the "right handed" layout puts the board right where the barrel jack will poke into the cavity... and 2) the top is too thick for the pot shafts... so will have to take another manual wack at the control cavity.  just never ending!

[ScottR]

On 1/18/2023 at 4:33 PM, mistermikev said:

fully aware of the risk that I've asked you this before... but as i recall you sand up beyond 400 yes?  It sticks in my mind because I've read many say that after 400 grit you start to burnish the wood.  

You guys have pretty much covered this by now, but yes I go past 400. From there, 1500-12000 micromesh. Used with their foam pads, and judicious cleaning they don't burnish.....unless you want them to. I think burnishing often looks really good too.

SR

[Bizman62]

4 minutes ago, ScottR said:

I think burnishing often looks really good too.

Agreed, sometimes wood just is at its best when burnished. I didn't know it's a thing when I carved some spoons shown in another thread. But that's what I did, sanded and then moistened to raise the grain (which I also found out by accident) and finally burnished the with a piece of softwood to seal the surface.

[mistermikev]

so... the more I work on this project the more I seem to have to do yet... oh boy.  

anywho... shined this up to 2500... the flame is there... but i swear still not as obvious as in the wood b4 I cut it... guess we'll see when the finish gets on...

so

so this is a $12 nibbler off amazon.  I cut a small groove with my dremel cutoff wheel.  think I might buy another and take another shot cause i can tell with a slightly tighter groove I might get a cleaner cut but given stainless steel frets... and the fact that it made it to fret 27... and cut pretty clean... can't complain.

and this here is a starette nippers.  a new set will set you back $400.  this rusted old one cost me $25.  it's not perfect... there is an uneven gap on the cutting edge.  not sure what could possibly reshape these ends because they are about as hard as it gets.  these will cut through stainless like nothing.  they don't make 'em like they used to.

here you can see how well the $12 nibblers did:

[mistermikev]

got my stainless steel frets leveled and dressed... and man are my arms tired!  between the very tight radius of the neck (compound 6" to 8" - unstoppable force) and the rigidity of ss (imovable object) I had to do more crowning than I would have liked esp given it was a pita w stainless.  but we're through that now.

 

so what are these?  some pitch black photos?  well... er... I guess so.  I did a little live experiment ("I don't usually test my code but when I do... I prefer the live environment") with diy glow in the dark dots.  getting photos was probably harder than doing the dots. 

they certainly don't glow on the level with luminlay... but I really wanted something with color as opposed to that off-white look that most of the luminlay has (not that there is anything wrong w that... just thought it might look better with color for this proj).  They remind me a lot of what you might see on a pistol sight.   

the oak one:

 

and the purpleheart...

and here is the materials and jist of what I did... 3mm od vinyl tube and glow dust and ca glue.  `first used the pointed nail set to sort of get the clipped tube ends back to circular to make it easier to get the dust in... then the std nail set to pack the dust in a bit.

 

also finished up my preamps for the piezo...

 

anywho... just another baby step!

[mistermikev]

well... it's been a very long road... but at least one of these is done:

truss rod cover is a fav feature of mine... hard to see in the pic but it has scales... I believe this was at the suggestion of a forum member early on in build feedback... so thanks for that whomever that was!!

all magnetic control cavity covers... there is a "secret spot" that if you push they pop open

my first ever scarf joint here... pretty happy w how it turned out

 

[Bizman62]

That is a stunningly superb build, you've really done your homework in learning how to code your CNC. All those curves can't be redesigned in the fly!

Not only that, you've also improved your photography skills by a margin! Very enjoyable to view even full screen.

[mistermikev]

2 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

That is a stunningly superb build, you've really done your homework in learning how to code your CNC. All those curves can't be redesigned in the fly!

Not only that, you've also improved your photography skills by a margin! Very enjoyable to view even full screen.

thank you Biz.  really means a lot to me.  Honestly... this was a cnc fail in a lot of ways.  almost every edge detail on this thing had to be re-worked so it was a LOT of manual carve.  The backside carve I manually re-did with a belt sander and card scraper.  The top carve... on this oak one... well it was never meant to cut this deep so I had to 'massage' that bottom edge and hence the little piece left on the lower horn.  the top is so thin in places I was burning through it right at the edge.  So in a lot of ways, this one was saved from the edge of disaster and almost didn't make it.  All that said - invaluable lessons learned and it's a really great playing instrument at the end of that so... just lucky I guess - esp for first cnc project.  Thank you again for the support!!

 

[killemall8]

one of the coolest builds ive seen on PG!

[mistermikev]

1 minute ago, killemall8 said:

one of the coolest builds ive seen on PG!

that is a very generous compliment and means the world to me from you sir!

[Hydrogeoman]

Just beautiful! Being a huge Carl Thompson / Les Claypool fan, I appreciate the "tribute" aspect of your design, but you throw in just enough of your own enhancements/ideas to make the basses truly "yours." Great work!

[mistermikev]

10 minutes ago, Hydrogeoman said:

Just beautiful! Being a huge Carl Thompson / Les Claypool fan, I appreciate the "tribute" aspect of your design, but you throw in just enough of your own enhancements/ideas to make the basses truly "yours." Great work!

thank you, very much appreciate it.  I like to think I'm currently "studying the masters" and gravitating towards something more "my own" with each build.  thanks again for the kind words.

[Stu.]

I've just flicked back and spotted the scales on the truss rod cover. Such a neat detail and nod to the design language of the bass!

[mistermikev]

1 hour ago, Stu. said:

I've just flicked back and spotted the scales on the truss rod cover. Such a neat detail and nod to the design language of the bass!

thank you stu for noticing.  I had considered how I might integrate that sm motif with the bridge but couldn't reconcile how it  would work with the mirrored "claws" , perhaps something for next time.  thank you again for the feedback, very much appreciate it!!

[mistermikev]

brothers and sisters... would really appreciate it if you could lend me your ear?  Tell me how this strikes you?  Would appreciate it.

piezo

magnetic

 

 

[Bizman62]

I very much liked the piezo, the sound is mellow and suits the music styles I like to listen to. Oldies... Did I hear right or is it just this pair of headphones, but to me it sounded like the lower frequences came through a bit quieter?

Nothing wrong with the magnetic either, perfect for vintage rock'n'roll and such.

Both are pleasant to listen to, by these examples they'd both be perfect for backing.

[mistermikev]

6 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

I very much liked the piezo, the sound is mellow and suits the music styles I like to listen to. Oldies... Did I hear right or is it just this pair of headphones, but to me it sounded like the lower frequences came through a bit quieter?

Nothing wrong with the magnetic either, perfect for vintage rock'n'roll and such.

Both are pleasant to listen to, by these examples they'd both be perfect for backing.

thank you biz.  very much appreciate it.  the piezo... well was hoping this came across similar to an upright, at least that is what i was going for.  idk if the low b is quieter, but it def is clearer then on my other 5s.  doesn't flab out.  that said I was playing it more delicate than typical.

pretty happy w the sound of either by itself... but blended there are still some issues... might be impedance mismatch or phase but they don't combine so well.  will have to work on that. 

thanks for taking the time!!  very much appreciate it.

[Bizman62]

7 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

is it just this pair of headphones, but to me it sounded like the lower frequences came through a bit quieter?

Came home from the LAN party and used my regular headphones. It might just be that the lowest tones naturally sound like going on and off, the low B being only about 30 Hz. For checking what I should hear I tried several bass test videos and the 30 Hz really has that sort of vibrato. So nothing wrong there.

[mistermikev]

1 minute ago, Bizman62 said:

Came home from the LAN party and used my regular headphones. It might just be that the lowest tones naturally sound like going on and off, the low B being only about 30 Hz. For checking what I should hear I tried several bass test videos and the 30 Hz really has that sort of vibrato. So nothing wrong there.

well, had shared this with one of my long time friends who is an accomplished gtr player and his fist thoughts were also regarding the low b... so you aren't alone.  he remarked that for such a low note it was very 'clear'.  the low b is really at the extreme edge of my hearing ability - so much so that I more feel it than hear it... and I have not listened thru headphones yet but I know with my dt990 and q701s... only just reach down to 20Hz and 5Hz respectively so... I can't imagine that note would be represented well on anything less than an 8" speaker but what-do-I-know!

[Bizman62]

4 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

I can't imagine that note would be represented well on anything less than an 8" speaker but what-do-I-know!

I start hearing some rattle with my Lidl gaming headphones already at 20 Hz but 3o is where I can tell it's definitely a note. I can't hear any noticeable difference between those and my Sennheiser HD 599SE phones.

[mistermikev]

1 minute ago, Bizman62 said:

I start hearing some rattle with my Lidl gaming headphones already at 20 Hz but 3o is where I can tell it's definitely a note. I can't hear any noticeable difference between those and my Sennheiser HD 599SE phones.

listened again here on my studio monitors then on my q701s... I think there maybe is something in my axefx setup that might be restricting the lows on that b.  it does seem to drop a little bit.  so much so that I went to my axefx and looked at my setup for this sound... think I found the culprit: