Your perception of the 59 Les Paul sound

[Crusader]

I always heard that the 59 Les Pauls are supposed to have the best sound but when I finally heard some decent recordings on Youtube it wasn't what I expected

I thought the tone would be more crisp in the bass response. For example when you go to buy speakers for your HiFi the more expensive ones seem to be lacking in bass but when you cotton-on to it you realise they do sound better. I think the same goes for bass guitars, pianos and musical instruments and equipment in general, the more expensive ones are tighter in the bass

But the 59 Les Paul doesn't seem to conform to this and the bass is kind-of a bit more boomy, more accoustic sounding. Am I right? and I'm wondering what other people have experienced with this. When you heard what is supposed to be a good sounding LP did you like it straight away? Because for me it was more "Oh, that's what they reckon sounds good" Sure it does sound good but its not what I expected

What's your experience and your perception?

[curtisa]

2 hours ago, Crusader said:

when I finally heard some decent recordings on Youtube it wasn't what I expected

But you're listening to the sound of the guitar tempered by whatever the recording chain was - the amp, the speaker, pedals (if any), the amp/pedal settings, the speaker brand, the number of speakers in the cab, the microphone position, the microphone choice, any processing during recording, any post-processing after recording. At best a recording of a guitar done by somebody else will be a guideline as to how you expect it to sound. Your true perceptions of how the guitar actually sounds vs what you think it should sound like will only be meaningful if you're there interacting directly with it.

 

2 hours ago, Crusader said:

But the 59 Les Paul doesn't seem to conform to this and the bass is kind-of a bit more boomy, more accoustic sounding. Am I right?

Dunno. One person's 'boomy' is another person's 'warm'. I've not played a Gibson LP of any variety, but personally I'd be cautious of assuming that common (internet?) knowledge had it that a particular model and year of guitar would be widely regarded as 'the best sounding.' Best sounding relative to what? In the context of what style of music? What signal chain? Does your interpretation of the tonal qualities of the instrument and the signal chain it's being run through align with other listeners'?

[ADFinlayson]

In those days they had pickup winders that were started and stopped by human operatives so no two pickups would sound identical - pickups being such a large factor of an electric guitars sound. Amps have arguably even more influence on sound too, after all it's the amp and cab that's turning a signal into a sound. Totally agree with @curtisa too, it's the whole recording process that has a huge affect, mic choice and placement can make or break a recorded guitars tone too.

[Crusader]

Yes that is true the electrics play a big part of it, I didn’t elaborate too much so I will add more info here

A friend of mine in the 1970s had the Beano album but that wasn’t much to go on and with the overdrive etc it just sounded like another guitar to me. And the music was somewhat dated so that’s yet another factor that can cloud a persons assessment

But sometimes you don’t need someone to tell you what sounds good. When I was a kid I thought LPs looked too old fashioned but when I went to my first rock concert at age 12 everybody had them and I decided they look really cool

So when I was 17 I bought one based on their looks alone but I was disappointed when I brought it home and plugged it in. About a year later I put it up for sale and one guy came to check it out. He was a jazz player or something and commented it doesn’t have the bassy tone that they’re supposed to have

Other people also commented about this in fact when I sold it ten years later the guy who bought it was not impressed after he plugged it in

Not that it sounded terrible, it just wasn’t what people expected. One time I lent it to the lead guitarist in the band I used to see. Early in the night he was tuning up and we were out the back playing pool. Suddenly I started hearing this very fabulous sound so I had to know. I dropped everything and went through and sure enough it was my guitar

Now considering it would have been going through the same amp and pedals, it sounded so much better than the Kramer or whatever it was as his main guitar

In 2008 I looked around to buy another guitar and after trying a few different species I ended up with another Les Paul. In 2014 I upgraded to a 59 Reissue

But even having that guitar I still wasn’t sure if it had the tone that people rave about. My easiest source of reference was YouTube videos but everyone who puts on a demo almost always cranks on the overdrive

It wasn’t until I saw Bernie Marsden with his “beast” and other people with the greenie LP that I started to cotton on to the tone that I think is regarded as being so great

Now having said all that (gee this is a lot more explaining than I anticipated LOL) When I made my second Les Paul I put it up against my 59 Reissue and dismayed it doesn’t sound as good.........

However after playing it for a few months and getting used to what it sounds like, I decided it sounds AWESOME. Just because it sounds different to the R9 doesn’t mean it sounds bad, in fact it probably sounds more like what I expected a 59 to sound like. And I’m sure it sounds better than the two other LPs I had

So that is my experience with the whole 59 Les Paul thing. I think it’s a similar story to the Stradivarius violin. At some point somebody said “this sounds good” and everyone just follows along

So getting back to the original question. Seeing YouTubes of Greenie playing “Oh Well” and Bernie demoing his beast and having a 59 Reissue of my own, I think I have a good idea of what a real 59 is supposed to sound like, and it’s not what I expected

When you can’t try out the real thing you have to go through a lot to get an idea of what it’s meant to be. I thought a 59 would have a more crisp clear tone in the bass register but to my surprise it doesn’t. I’m wondering if other people had the same expectations

Sorry for such a long explanation but I thought it’s necessary to put it clearly where I’m coming from

cheers

[curtisa]

5 hours ago, Crusader said:

So getting back to the original question. Seeing YouTubes of Greenie playing “Oh Well” and Bernie demoing his beast and having a 59 Reissue of my own, I think I have a good idea of what a real 59 is supposed to sound like, and it’s not what I expected

I'd still argue that two recorded examples and a single reissue 59 that you personally own makes for a very limited sample set. How much of athe perceived original 59's tonal fingerprint is down to the thing simply being 60 years old? Is it universally repeatable across multiple examples of other '59 LPs? And can you make such a judgement given that all three of your benchmarks would have been plugged into different signal chains at different points in history and played/listened to differently?

[Bizman62]

One thing is that the sound of a certain guitar recorded with a band doesn't necessarily tell how it sounds when played alone. I recall having read about a guitarist doing his part in a recording session. The sound he dialed in was like the whining of a mosquito, very annoying as such. But when it was mixed with the other instruments it magically filled a gap in the sound scene without bulldozing the rest.

Another thing is the placing of your guitar speaker. Often it's on the floor, facing your legs. The audience hears a different sound than you do. If you place your amp to your ear level, you'll hear the same sound as the crowd. On recordings, the microphones are in front of the speaker - artificial ears at the right spot. Little things can do a lot!

[Crusader]

Yes we all know there are numerous elements that make up the final sound but when you listen to a variety of recordings and compare to guitars you've actually played you start to hear what they have in common

 

12 hours ago, curtisa said:

I've not played a Gibson LP of any variety

They are very "expressive", they "talk" to you

[Bizman62]

3 hours ago, Crusader said:

Yes we all know there are numerous elements that make up the final sound but when you listen to a variety of recordings and compare to guitars you've actually played you start to hear what they have in common

Thought you knew it...

My ears aren't on the level of telling a guitar from another. Even when someone else plays a guitar I've built I can't recognize it! It would be tempting to ask a few guys to play the same riff or tune on the very same guitar through the very same amp, yet letting them turn the knobs as they like, to hear if they sound different. I know my playing would sound different to theirs...

[Crusader]

3 hours ago, Crusader said:

They are very "expressive", they "talk" to you

I was going to edit this but what I mean is the good ones. I've had 5 Les Pauls and only 2 of them I would say were "expressive"

 

5 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

One thing is that the sound of a certain guitar recorded with a band doesn't necessarily tell how it sounds when played alone. I recall having read about a guitarist doing his part in a recording session. The sound he dialed in was like the whining of a mosquito, very annoying as such. But when it was mixed with the other instruments it magically filled a gap in the sound scene without bulldozing the rest.

Another thing is the placing of your guitar speaker. Often it's on the floor, facing your legs. The audience hears a different sound than you do. If you place your amp to your ear level, you'll hear the same sound as the crowd. On recordings, the microphones are in front of the speaker - artificial ears at the right spot. Little things can do a lot!

Yes this is interesting and I've had a similar experience myself. The guitar sounds good out of the amp but listening to the recording it just doesn't sound right

[Crusader]

2 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Thought you knew it...

My ears aren't on the level of telling a guitar from another. Even when someone else plays a guitar I've built I can't recognize it! It would be tempting to ask a few guys to play the same riff or tune on the very same guitar through the very same amp, yet letting them turn the knobs as they like, to hear if they sound different. I know my playing would sound different to theirs...

Hi, not sure what you mean by "thought you knew it" - not to worry

Yes listening to guitars to compare them can be very hard to come to conclusions. I've done a lot of it and comparing pickups as well. The way I see it is you have to "train" your ear and I think I've been very good at it but the ability only lasts a while. But I don't think it takes a trained ear to hear what I am talking about. I just thought the 59 Les Paul would be more clear and crisp in the bass register

[Bizman62]

1 minute ago, Crusader said:

not sure what you mean by "thought you knew it"

I meant that a long time guitar player and builder like you most likely would know about the elements that make the final sound but made that comment anyway for someone who doesn't.

[Crusader]

17 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

I meant that a long time guitar player and builder like you most likely would know about the elements that make the final sound but made that comment anyway for someone who doesn't.

cheers

 

I probably should have put it like this from the start

I've been listening to Led Zeppelin for decades and I've heard Clapton on the Beano album but don't think I ever understood what a 59 LP is supposed to sound like until I heard this, and I was surprised, it doesn't sound like what I thought it would. At 2:00 minutes he plays clean. Interesting stories he tells too

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Crusader

[Crusader]

So continuing, I hope I'm going to make my point a bit clearer

After watching numerous YouTubes of 59 LPs this one stands out to me to be one of the best to get an idea of what the 59 sounds like, its just Bernie, the guitar and the amp. It doesn't sound like there's a lot of processing going on and my R9 sounds like that too

And its not what I expected - - because its not my idea of what "The Best" sounding guitar would be, its too "syrupy" It suits the type of music he's playing but.....I remember reading somewhere a person commenting on Les Pauls, he said "those things don't 'twang'" Anyway all this leads me to asking the question "Who says this is the best sounding guitar?"

I have an R9 and the girl at Kosmic who sold it to me preferred Telecasters, and she said you can tell when there's a Telecaster being played, it sounds so distinctive. She described what that sound is like and explained why and how they get that sound. So after that I've had a lot more appreciation for Telecasters. And just because I like something, it doesn't mean that everyone else has to like it too

One day I did some work at this house and the the place was littered with guitars, so when I was finished I asked the owner about them and they were his sons. So I got talking to him and organised a jam session in his recording studio. I took my R9 and one of the Les Pauls I made and played one and then the other. So after that he couldn't stop raving about the R9 and I felt a bit peeved because I was amazed how good my LP sounded. It sounded different to the R9 but it didn't sound 'bad'

If you were to ask me what I think is the best sounding guitar, it might be hard to describe. I would say with more clarity in the bass, not so "warm"

[ScottR]

Until a standard for "best sound" is identified, specified, described and signed off on, and placed on a pedestal, I don't think there is such a thing as the best sounding guitar. They all sound a bit different, and yet they all sound like guitars.

Now if you were looking for one's favorite sounding guitars, it could be answered.....but there would be a buttload of answers .....and they'd all be correct!

SR

[Crusader]

On 7/24/2020 at 10:33 PM, ScottR said:

Until a standard for "best sound" is identified, specified, described and signed off on, and placed on a pedestal, I don't think there is such a thing as the best sounding guitar. They all sound a bit different, and yet they all sound like guitars.

Now if you were looking for one's favorite sounding guitars, it could be answered.....but there would be a buttload of answers .....and they'd all be correct!

SR

Actually you made me realise why I had this misconception. With other instruments we hear about its usually ones used in Classical music that are highly regarded, like the Stadivarius violin. A Les Paul or any solid body guitar would not register on the Richter scale in the Classical music world

[Crusader]

This is too funny.....

So I was thinking to myself "what sound do I think rates as 'the best' in electric guitars"? and what came to mind is Michael Schenker so I looked it up and in his early career he used.....drum roll...........a Les Paul!

DOH!